Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Public discussion of the Province: Cyrodiil project.
Worsas
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 14 Dec 2014, 22:14

I brought up the suggestion of possibly merging all workdata of both projects in front of a few others before. And we concluded that there is probably more fuss than gain involved. We won't do it, at least not for now.

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SGMonkey
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 24 Dec 2014, 18:42

Anyway, back on topic.

Not been able to make much progress on merging the forums due to lack of time, plus visiting parents for crimbo n shit.

I'd like to put across some opinions n what not, see what peoples opinions are.

SO. Personally, I'd like to create a new forum for the project and do away with the idea of merging forums. Merging sql databases is awkward enough as it is, let alone merging more than two. Also bare in mind that the PC forum was modded before i took over from DJGamer. So it has lots of stuff left over from the old databases mods which makes merging even more awkward.

So this is what i propose.
New forum at www.project-tamriel.com, remove the existing one at said location and replace it with the new project forum.
The old forums, PC, SHOTN, HR, and PO, can be left where they are and just have posting, user registration and PM's disabled, plus have a notice stating what is going on.

In my opinion the pro's outweight the cons.

So people. Let me know what you think.

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SamirA
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SamirA » 24 Dec 2014, 19:26

I'm good with whatever. I see a merge as a benefit to all, though I know some don't see it that way for whatever reason.
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SGMonkey
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 24 Dec 2014, 19:53

The only downside I can see from having all of the forums hosted on one site database is having to register on a new forum. Which is a pretty minimal problem.

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SGMonkey
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 24 Dec 2014, 20:47

Speaking of creating a new forum. Did any one have any preferences on this. http://phpbb31.project-tamriel.com

Should the different province projects be nested under "Province Mods" or should each province have its own category on the front page?

Let me know what you think and I will get it all set up and maybe ready in the new year.

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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 25 Dec 2014, 01:06

SGMonkey wrote:Should the different province projects be nested under "Province Mods" or should each province have its own category on the front page?

I'm rather ambivalent on this question. I can think of two setups that may work and have their advantages and disadvantages respectively.

A: Have the claims for each project in a respective nested forum and put everything else in the project-specific category on the frontpage. This would allow for the maximum coordination between the projects, when it comes to discussion or conceptualisation.

B: Remove the project categories on the front page and keep the projects in their nested forums where they can retain their own forum structure and organisation. This would allow the projects to stay more independent from each other. Cross-coordination could still happen, one would just have to visit the nested forums.

In either case I propose putting the showcase section and the news section on the front page above the projects. So one can become modder in all projects at one place. And we could potentially have many more public updates one a common portal page as I probably repeated in a number of places.

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SGMonkey
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 25 Dec 2014, 01:12

I've already gone ahead and put the showcase in the same category as the main news.

It's worth discussing which forums should be shared between projects. I was thinking showcases and news should. Maybe even screenshots.

Check out the current setup here.
www.project-tamriel.com/PT

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Scamp
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Scamp » 25 Dec 2014, 01:19

I like this approach. Also, good call on the showcase/news sections, since we really have the very same requirements and standards for showcases (plus, the way it is set up now, every P:C modder is immediately promoted at ShotN anyway (and vice versa)) and the news forum is mostly for the audience interested in both projects anyway.

Btw, thanks for your work on all this, SGM. I really do appreciate it.
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 25 Dec 2014, 02:08

Seeing the general section in mod development subforum of P:C (with the note that it is what we currently have as master plan section) got me thinking a bit.

The master plan is something we don't have in the same shape at SHOTN. At the same time we have some other ways of handling things at SHOTN that aren't done the same way by P:C. We share many people but there is still clearly two projects with own identities and a number of unique people on both sides. My initial proposal was merging the projects. This has been refused by several people, so we are actually not merging them now. Actually the terms under which SHOTN-people more or less agreed to come together with P:C is by having an own (nested) forum for the project.

This would clearly speak for the nested forum approach, I spoke of above.

On the other hand I wouldn't like to see the forum structure presented here to be scrapped. I think the main layout with the project specific categories on the frontpage is good as you have it, but maybe the subforums under the categories must be modified in order to stress that they are individual projects and not homogenous sections of the same project.

I think that each project needs to explicitly state the structure they want within their category and furthermore within their subforums. Otherwise it will not be truly their own place. I don't want us to decide stuff for the people that are actually supposed to use those nested forums. I have seen that you have already taken the different structures into account, though. I would only like to show it to people to give their O.K. or to request modifications where needed.

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SGMonkey
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 25 Dec 2014, 02:14

That all sounds fine to me.

I want to make this as straight forward as I can for members.

I think for now I will keep the structure as it is. Just for sake of clarity while I get things set up.

One thing I would like to get working well is the necessary groups and permissions for each group. Who is allowed to do what and where.

EDIT: I have added two temporary styles for the Cyrodiil and SHOTN section. I say temporary because I can't work on implementing some of the mods we use currently as I'm away from home n whatnot. But it should give you all a good idea of how we can keep the 'feel' of each project.

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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 26 Dec 2014, 14:21

The new page is starting to look really promising. Portal page and that project-tamriel forumstyle look great to me.

In order to get everyone prepared for the move, we should still discuss the subforums of Province:Cyrodiil.

To me the biggest question regarding P:C is the continuation of the master plan in the new forum, if it can happen in the general discussion of the content development or if we should create a different place or label for it. What texts do need to be transferred into the new forum from here? Quite a few, I imagine. The same would be true for SHOTN.

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Infragris
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Infragris » 26 Dec 2014, 17:28

This is shaping up nicely. We should indeed look at the subforums, as many categories seem redundant right now. Faction development, for example, could happen in either master plan, region planning, lore, or the factions & guilds subsection of quests & dialogue - I think there are two or three Imperial Cult thread right now. I like the master plan, but we should either be curating discussion there, or pruning categories elsewhere.

In terms of texts and info that needs transferring, this would be a good time to summarize and finalize some stuff. There are a lot of discussions that are going nowhere right now, and a lot of threads that can be packed up for clarity's sake. Also a good chance to review some of the older designs, like the Kali Mes stuff.

Somewhat related, I wonder if there is some way of setting up a database of finalized information for the project. Something wiki-like, I suppose, though I'm completely ignorant as to how much work that would be. As the project grows, we're going to have a plethora of NPCs, locations, history, items, factions, etc. and we can't expect modders to parse through entire discussions for every time they build a dungeon or write a bit of dialogue.

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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 26 Dec 2014, 20:12

Faction development, for example, could happen in either master plan, region planning, lore, or the factions & guilds subsection of quests & dialogue - I think there are two or three Imperial Cult thread right now. I like the master plan, but we should either be curating discussion there, or pruning categories elsewhere.

Very much agreed.

Perhaps rather discuss sections while looking at the new forum being developed and figure, what's missing:
http://www.project-tamriel.com/PT/viewforum.php?f=5

Where do we put general character and dialogue creation, for example?

Should we maybe add a subarea for mostly finished design-documents which can only be edited by the moderator people?

Our master planning has been mostly about factions so far. Since they are so central in meaning, perhaps keep them there as you suggest and transfer somewhat finished results into the finished documents area?

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SamirA
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SamirA » 26 Dec 2014, 20:13

I agree we have a lot of redundant area in our forums right now that should be merged and cleaned up. I think it would be best overall to have each project run along similar forum structures so that people coming in and out of each or just visiting them know exactly where to go in each project forum for whatever information they are looking for. We need to streamline the process overall to create a better working environment that works for both teams at the same time.
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Worsas
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Worsas » 26 Dec 2014, 20:22

I think it would be best overall to have each project run along similar forum structures so that people coming in and out of each or just visiting them know exactly where to go in each project forum.

Yes, that would be good.

My main intend with asking the people at SHOTN for their opinion is that I want people to feel at home in the new forum. Though, I don't think there is much we'll need to fiddle about anyway. I only want people to look at the new forum and figure out if they like it and if not, what needs to change.

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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SGMonkey » 27 Dec 2014, 00:58

Looking at the new forum. In my opinion, the only things it's missing is a "Characters & Questing" section, and a sound section.

Personally, I dont think there needs to be a dedicated forum for sounds & music. I think it should be added to textures & meshes, and textures and meshes should be renamed content or asset development.

Assets, as far as im concerned, are only external files, content that isnt contained within an esp or esm. (This isn't just with regards to bethesda games.)


EDIT: The main Project Tamriel site has now been scrapped and replaced with the new work on progress site.

There are still a few things to do. Bulk of which is groups and permissions. Need to decide what we want on the portal too.

EDIT: For the sake of workload. I plan to drop one of the Cyrodiil forum styles. There are two versions, wide and standard. Hardly anyone uses the wide style. It may be because no-one knows of it, or how to change it... So, can I get a show of hands or something? Who wants to keep what?

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Scamp
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Scamp » 27 Dec 2014, 16:27

Let's keep the standard style :P

Already got spam-mails on http://shotn.project-tamriel.com/. Hilarious: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41846147/lol.png

Although it's frightening to see how spambots ask me for blog-mass-posting software because I have a blog. Jesus.
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Yeti
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Yeti » 27 Dec 2014, 16:54

This has nothing to do with the new forums, really, but both projects could use wikis to organize lore and character concepts in a easily navigable format. The idea just came to me, but I think it could potentially work better than keeping finalized plans in documents scattered around the forums. Anyone looking for project-relevant background lore, for whatever reason, would simply search a single repository. Finding time to assemble and update a wiki could be a problem, though.

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SamirA
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby SamirA » 27 Dec 2014, 17:13

I'm pretty sure I use the wide style and obviously would want to keep it if so. Why would anyone want half their screen to be taken up by blank space?
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Infragris
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Re: Skyrim and Cyrodiil

Postby Infragris » 27 Dec 2014, 18:38

I've been using the wide style as well. I'm not sure in which situation the default would be preferable, really.

@Yeti: a wiki is exactly what I'm thinking of. But, as I said, I'm unsure how much work that would entail.

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