Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Public discussion of the Province: Cyrodiil project.
Worsas
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Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Worsas » 13 Sep 2011, 10:42

Just posting this as I think it might be of general relevance.

In Morrowind there is a topic called "Cyrodiil". NPC's of the class Savant aswell as priests of the imperial cult and knights of the imperial legion have it. I stumbled over it when speaking to the book trader in Balmora.

The content:
Cyrodiil is the cradle of Human Imperial high culture on Tamriel. It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. The Imperial City is in the heartland, the fertile Nibenay Valley. The densely populated central valley is surrounded by wild rain forests drained by great rivers into the swamps of Argonia and Topal Bay. The land rises gradually to the west and sharply to the north. Between its western coast and its central valley are deciduous forests and mangrove swamps.


I remembered the point about mangrove swamps and wondered where else in the western part of Cyrodiil mangroves would be possible but along a river that flows westwards from cyrodiil's center. And the text mentions such rivers.

I'm just saying since there are no such rivers on your claim map and, well, oblivion did not have any rivers there. I don't know if it's already too late for such things anyway.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby DJGamer » 13 Sep 2011, 14:48

Wow, when you look at that description and the fact that it's in MORROWIND-you can NOT look at the semi-official "Retcon" of the Jungle-type Cyrodiil with a straight face. From what I recall, it claims that Tiber Septim used his totem-thing (forget what it's called) to adjust the climate. However, that only accounts for the discrepancy with the 1E Pocket Guide, and not with this piece of dialog from a game taking place long after Tiber's death. That would mean every character who has this dialog in Morrowind must not have heard that bit of news about something that happened two eras ago. :maiq:

Also, we are definitely capable of adding more features to the landscape and I'm pretty sure we're planning to, though it would probably take a bit more work if we're talking about major features.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Scamp » 13 Sep 2011, 15:51

We totally need more rivers in Cyrodiil, especially if we want to make a more river-based society.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Tarius » 13 Sep 2011, 19:10

Scamp wrote:We totally need more rivers in Cyrodiil, especially if we want to make a more river-based society.

We dont need more rivers, just make sure all the cities have river access and use it. Mabe have "spheres of influence" where everything in the country said will work through a particular city's dock.
I think one of the musts however, is to have roads following along side every river. When I go up to the Blue Ridge mountains, this is how it is there. Most streams/rivers have roads following directly next to them, usually within at least a couple hundred feet at most.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Scamp » 13 Sep 2011, 19:22

"Make sure all cities have river access" - and you wouldn't call that extending rivers?
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Worsas » 13 Sep 2011, 20:09

It's not that I would have much of a say, but imo you should at least add one river that goes westwards from the heartland and involves a swampy area somewhere along the course, maybe just where it flows through the great forest.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Tarius » 13 Sep 2011, 20:18

Scamp wrote:"Make sure all cities have river access" - and you wouldn't call that extending rivers?

I meant that all the cities that are currently next to water would have dock access. A place like Bruma should not be next to water because of its location.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Scamp » 13 Sep 2011, 21:13

Of course Bruma is not going to have a river nearby. It's high up in the mountains.

Anyway, we should at least have some more small side-rivers planned or maybe a larger one going westwards, like Worsas suggested.
Hell, actually I am fine with the way we want to deal with it at the moment. However it was originally more meant as a suggestion, but then I got fond of the idea.
In other words, keeping all the river stuff in eastern Cyrodiil is fine by me.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Wollibeebee » 13 Sep 2011, 23:02

rivers.. come from mountains.. :/

but yeah, i want more rivers too.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Worsas » 14 Sep 2011, 11:58

Of course rivers do not flow upwards :P

it would have been a valley, if anything, as for the westwards-flowing river.

@Tarius: Sorry, I was not intending to disregard you with my above statement.
But isn't P:C anyway taking a path between new lore from Oblivion and the original descriptions of the imperial province?

I see why you wouldn't want to change the goldcoast as such for organisatoric reasons, though. But a river connection to a city like Skingrad is something you could still arrange for, if you wanted, it's a design-question more than a question of organisatoric feasibility.

Edit: You could, for example, simply extend the somewhat cut-off white-rose river so it goes til Skingrad, you would not even be adding another river in that case.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Scamp » 14 Sep 2011, 17:21

Wollibeebee wrote:rivers.. come from mountains.. :/


But not from the Jerall mountains in this case, yes?

They mainly come from the sea in Cyrodiil.

Like I said, I am actually fine without more major rivers, however somehow I am under the impression maybe a nice river in the jungle would look magnificent. What do I know, though.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Tarius » 14 Sep 2011, 19:45

I see why you wouldn't want to change the goldcoast as such for organisatoric reasons, though. But a river connection to a city like Skingrad is something you could still arrange for, if you wanted, it's a design-question more than a question of organisatoric feasibility.

Actually, the only 2 cities I could see not having river access are Chorrol and Bruma. But with Chorrol, it wouldnt be that out there and would be ok if it were done properly; although Chorrol is still at a rather high elevation for a river.

As for Skingrad, even the map for Oblivion shows the river going next to it. I am in no way opposed to shifting the location a little bit and giving the city a dock area right across the road from it; same for Kvatch. It isnt a stretch to give these river access. I imagine with Skingrad, the dock area would be somewhat apart from the city and not directly in it. In this case the dock would serve the surrounding country side, not just Skingrad; same for Kvatch as well, hence I mentioned like "spheres of influence" elsewhere. What I am against is putting water everywhere in the form of two dozens rivers or something. I could see adding one mabe 2 more, but beyond that I find it would seem over done.
The two locations I could see rivers being added would be one right to the east of Kvatch and one along the Black Road coming from Chorrol.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Scamp » 14 Sep 2011, 21:30

Kvatch is not to be moved from its exact location though. It's the only city where three different regions meet, and that is a very unique case and allows for great possibilities and stylistic devices. It shouldn't be moved.
I am fine with anything else.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Tarius » 14 Sep 2011, 22:10

Scamp wrote:Kvatch is not to be moved from its exact location though. It's the only city where three different regions meet, and that is a very unique case and allows for great possibilities and stylistic devices. It shouldn't be moved.
I am fine with anything else.

By shifting I mean something like a couple outer cells at most, not a major move or anything. As it stands now, the map we are using is already different from the original, so any city locations are going to "approximate" to begin with. Yes I would like keeping things close to how they were, but due to the differences, there is a little leeway in location for different places. I mean, how much notice will you give to something on the overall map when there is only 2 or 3 outer cells difference between one location choice vs another when the map is so large?
However, one thing I think would be completely fine is to have docks that are not directly connected to the cities themselves. Obviously this would only likely be the case for Kvatch or Skingrad but thats one way on keeping the city location static. Plus it would allow some empty space to be filled.

And please, I am not being offended by anyones points. I am simply making my case on what I am thinking, so please dont picture me as yelling or anything else.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
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The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Wollibeebee » 14 Sep 2011, 22:24

Scamp wrote:
Wollibeebee wrote:rivers.. come from mountains.. :/


But not from the Jerall mountains in this case, yes?

They mainly come from the sea in Cyrodiil.

Like I said, I am actually fine without more major rivers, however somehow I am under the impression maybe a nice river in the jungle would look magnificent. What do I know, though.


i always like the idea that bruma was made on a thermal pool... can't remember what thread that idea came up in.

same, such as the little streams in ZXT's shots.. :d awesome.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby ZackG » 15 Sep 2011, 00:36

I am fully in favor of more rivers. They dont even have to be "rivers". Call them creeks.Let them be everywhere. You dont call a society river based just because more than half its major cities are on rivers. Almost every major city in the world already fits that description, so the peoples everyday life has to be centered on their dependance of rivers. A realistic and logical approach would be countless creeks and streams too small to bother to put on a large map exist all throughout Cyrodiil. Plus, for gameplay reasons, creeks, streams, and rivers look great and add to the life and beauty in the scenery of the land. Why argue against that?

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby SamirA » 15 Sep 2011, 00:47

I am all for adding some more waterways into Cyrodiil, and have been from the start. I think we could easily branch off some of our rivers into smaller ones and even add smaller streams and such as per zackg's suggestion.
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby DJGamer » 15 Sep 2011, 05:49

It would make sense that most cities would be located near some body of water simply due to convenience. It actually brings to mind a question of just what sort of plumbing exists in Tamriel. At the very least plumbing has advanced to a point where fountains are possible (i.e. the one in Mournhold or the waterfalls coming out of the cantons in Vivec-plus the fact that some places have sewer systems).
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Lady Nerevar
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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Lady Nerevar » 15 Sep 2011, 06:02

That sort of plumbing is actually a really ancient invention, so I would assume that they do have it, at least for public places and the upper echelons of society.

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Re: Cyrodiil-Ingame-Description

Postby Wollibeebee » 15 Sep 2011, 06:17

so HoE's decision ruled out? hahaha.

also.. can we bring aqua-ducts to tamriel while we're on the topic of plumbing?

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