Sutch: What's the plan?

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ZackG
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby ZackG » 04 Jan 2011, 17:11

Well the thing is SGMonkey, its referenced being in Cyrodiil many times and it was assumed it stayed there until Oblivion came along when they had new books suggesting it was in Hammerfell.

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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:13

I can't find it on any map at all though. Not even Hammerfell maps.

This is the map i used to create all of my Tamriel height maps and to get the borders, and as you can see, the area which you suggested Sutch be placed is, according to this map, in Hammerfell.

Basically, im just not sure how you want me to tackle this. Because with all the maps ive looked at the area in question is in Hammerfell

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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:15

Originally posted by ZXT012

You can make that particular area like this.

Also I've seen the map you have used and there is one thing that I've noticed: IIRC in OB's map the Corbele River ends very near Harlun's Watch while in the one you posted there is a rather large distance.
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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:15

Should we add Sutch in our province? I just feel like this will be problematic for any hammerfell mod unless they decide they want to cut off a chunk of their own mod and work directly with us. I personally would love to one day be playing on all of tamriel and would love to avoid any sort of conflicts. I know most of the big mods work together at least indirectly but this just seems like it may be a bit much as ZXT pointed out in another thread.

Just my two cents.
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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:16

My sentiments exactly. I know im not a member of the project, but i just feel that every map ive seen displays this area as being Hammerfell and that maybe it would be best to follow suite.

Another thing iv noticed is that the border to cyrodil is depicted on many maps as being quite plain. Such as this map which uses the same shape as my maps, but obviously, this is just an artistic looking map.

Just throwing this all out by the way :)

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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:17

Originally posted by ZXT012

@SamirA: As of now there is not anyone that is working on an Hammerfell mod so, I don't think there is any problem in the near future. Plus, to quote Zackg, "its referenced being in Cyrodiil many times and it was assumed it stayed there until Oblivion came along when they had new books suggesting it was in Hammerfell".
We've got other means to avoid/reduce conflicts with an hypothetical Hammerfell mod, like make our Sutch as a sort of expansion and last but not least an old good fashioned poll over at Beth's Forum asking for opinion of the community.
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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:17

@ZXT012, I understand there is currently no Hammerfell in the works but it seems pretty assured that there will be one come about in the not too distant future. As long as we find a pretty assured way to do this without future conflict then go for it. That being said even without such conflict it still seems to bring up some problems for us creating the land as of now anyway. Whatever the decision ultimately doesn't matter as I will find a way to get everything to run properly for myself in any case, I just would like to cut down on the hassle for myself and many others if there are simpler solutions. Anyway, I'm just an interiors guy so I'll be cranking those out whenever I get my hands on them regardless of what bits of the Tamriel lands we are delving into.
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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:18

@SamirA: As of now there is not anyone that is working on an Hammerfell mod so, I don't think there is any problem in the near future. Plus, to quote Zackg, "its referenced being in Cyrodiil many times and it was assumed it stayed there until Oblivion came along when they had new books suggesting it was in Hammerfell".
We've got other means to avoid/reduce conflicts with an hypothetical Hammerfell mod, like make our Sutch as a sort of expansion and last but not least an old good fashioned poll over at Beth's Forum asking for opinion of the community.


Don't be so sure about that. As far as im aware there is indeed someone working on Hammerfell.

Personally I believe that sutch should stay in Hammerfell, and hopefully, at a later date when the two projects are at a later stage in life there can be quests made as mentioned earlier.

Then again, maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a poll over at the officials. :peaceout:

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Re: What's the plan?

Postby ZackG » 04 Jan 2011, 17:19

If somebody is working on Hammerfell publicly I think then itd be one thing to go about working with them, but I think it's too difficult to to plan around something that somebody one day could do. My vote is for Sutch but the thing about it Sutch is very, very far off. We won't even be touching that area for most likely a year or something, so we can kind of hold off on any definitive plans and continue brainstorming.

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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:19

@SGMonkey, if there is someone working on Hammerfell that is news to me. There is Hammerfell for the Oblivion engine which is being headed up by Lady N but for the Morrowind engine I have heard of no such thing. That being said if there is or is not someone working on Hammerfell I still feel we should avoid a chunk of real estate that is not in Cyrodill according to any maps we haven't created ourselves. This doesn't mean we couldn't sqeeze it in to the landmass we do have. There is nothing to say it couldn't have been destroyed prior to Oblivion happening. Just voicing my opinion, as I said, I stand behind whatever decision the group as a whole makes and am just ready to get to working with you guys.
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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:20

Again, i agree with you Samir. Follow the maps that we can work from.

The person making Hammerfell is using a map i created also, so if and when said person is willing to become public it will be compatible.

Shall we hold a vote at the officials?

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Re: What's the plan?

Postby ZackG » 04 Jan 2011, 17:20

I vote we wait on voting lol, but in the future we vote. There int a need to have an official position on this area yet, our focus must be on finishing the Imperial Isle and then the areas surrounding it.

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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:21

Yes, I agree. If we make this the last area then maybe we will see something public from Hammerfell before we reach the area and can then work with that project.
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:22

Agreed.

Will continue working on the height map tomorrow. Good night folks.

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Re: What's the plan?

Postby DJGamer » 04 Jan 2011, 17:22

I'll read through all the posts shortly, I just wanted to post a couple things:

First, Sutch can be found on this map: http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/t ... estmap.bmp

As well as in this screenshot from an early version of the Oblivion title screen: http://faux.uwcs.co.uk/sutch.jpg

We've altered its placement radically to fall in line with the idea that it becomes part of Hammerfell by the time of the events of Oblivion.

Not really breaking lore, just bending it a bit. lol

Btw, I read that the map is from Redguard.

[Reads the posts]

Son of a-

I'm sorry but after all the stuff we've been coming up with, feeling assured that we'd be making Sutch part of this mod-I really, REALLY don't like the idea of not including it just because someone might want to do a Hammerfell mod in the future. Such a mod would and I think SHOULD be developed with an awareness of where the borders of its neighboring province mods are going to be-just as from what I remember we're trying to be sure our borders will match up with Skyrim and Tamriel Rebuilt. They'd be STUPID not to get in touch with us FIRST before working on their landmass and we'd be able to make them aware of that little piece of land that we're using for Sutch, a piece of land which from all the maps I've seen thusfar doesn't appear to really have anything of any significance on it that'd be missed too much by a Hammerfell mod development team.

Now we could relocate it to closer to where it is on the Redguard/Oblivion Demo map, but then we run into the following problems:

*


* Why isn't in Oblivion? (Granted the same question could be asked regarding Mir Corrup)
* Why is there a book in Oblivion that says Sutch is located in Hammerfell? Was the author mistaken?
* We lose something we can build a nice plot around (how Sutch got annexed to Hammerfell).
* The Kali Mes element I came up with could still exist since it might still have some proximity to Hammerfell, but it seems less probable.
* We can't have the cool idea of the town being built on the side of a mountain/hill.



We've had plans for Sutch since over two years ago, SWG has designed at least one model for it. There are a lot of people who would like to see Sutch included and I think the idea that it gets annexed into Hammerfell is a nice compromise and can produce an interesting plot.

On other thing-from the looks of the map Hammerfell is a HUGE province. And what we're putting Sutch in is a relatively TINY piece of land. Again, I don't think it'd be missed that badly.
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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:23

Apparently Hammerfell is being worked on behind closed doors right now but is already in the works. Perhaps SGMonkey can speak with that team or person and inquire about our tiny portion of land we want to snatch away and if it is of little importance to them allow us to make what we want and still all the pieces fit together nicely once everyone's projects are completed.
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby DJGamer » 04 Jan 2011, 17:24

And again I'd say they'd be IDIOTS to not consult with us about borders. Perhaps they're not aware that we exist or that we're still in action since we haven't posted a thread on the BethSoft forums for awhile. Still, once they know we exist we'd have to work out where our borders are going to be in relation to each other so we don't have any crazy overlap conflicts going on and to make sure the transition between the two provinces is seamless for the sake of those who want to eventually be able to explore "all of Tamriel".
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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:25

Morning all.

After seeing those maps you posted DJ, I don't see why Sutch isn't constructed in Cyrodil where it is on those maps. The person working on Hammerfell is aware of Province Cyrodiil, and will also be using one of my maps so there wont be any overlapping issues unless Sutch is built where it has been suggested (Just over the Border)

Don't worry, not trying to tell you guys what to do, simply discussing it with you all.

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SamirA
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SamirA » 04 Jan 2011, 17:26

Originally posted by ZXT012

After seeing those maps you posted DJ, I don't see why Sutch isn't constructed in Cyrodil where it is on those maps.


I can imagine many reasons:
- there would have been a relatively small area overloaded with cities (Anvil, Kvatch and Skingrad are already in the same area);
- lack of time to do other resources, NPCs and so on;
- they run out of ideas for quests.

The person working on Hammerfell is aware of Province Cyrodiil, and will also be using one of my maps so there wont be any overlapping issues unless Sutch is built where it has been suggested (Just over the Border)


Any chance that you can put me in contact with this person? I'd like to hear what he/she has to say on the matter.
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SGMonkey
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Re: What's the plan?

Postby SGMonkey » 04 Jan 2011, 17:26

I can't really, but i will ask. Also said person, obviously asked me to keep it quiet.

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