Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Quests given by people in the Cold Coast Region.
User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby DJGamer » 30 Aug 2011, 15:41

Right now I'm going to focus on detailing what we've come up with thus far for the Kali Mes. This can be useful for anyone who doesn't want to read through an entire four page thread just to get all the details. The second part of this opening post will detail my current thoughts on what we might be doing with the Sutch main quest.

The name Kali Mes can basically be translated to "sharp knife". I'll post the symbol whenever I manage to remember where I uploaded it.

The initial inspiration for the "political structure" of the Kali Mes was the Sicilian Mafia and the original structure I outlined basically replaced the names for most of the ranks with more Yoku-esque words.

The version of Yoku we're using in Province: Cyrodiil is a combination of presently established words from the lore as well as new words derived from a combination of Swahili and Afrikaans (with a few creative touches here and there).

The initial system was basically this and the main concern that came up was that the Redguards don't particularly like the concept of hierarchies. In response to this the nature of the hierarchy was changed to introduce certain elements of equality and balances of power which aren't necessarily present in the Mafia Model. The result is that there are four basic "ranks" in the Kali Mes (although only three of them may be considered proper ones):

Tatu-Jumbei: The leadership of the Kali Mes-consisting of the Ra-Jumbei (Upper Boss), Onder-Jumbei (Under Boss) and the Shauriaad (Advisor/Consigliere). They are considered by some to represent the past, present and future of the Kali Mes. More details on their specific roles later. Their roles in the Kali Mes are technically equal to each other however the Ra-Jumbei is viewed by most as the actual "leader" of the clan.

Bwanei: The "Upper Rank" of the Kali Mes, made up of the more respected members who have earned their place in the clan. Their power is balanced to some extent with the Tatu-Jumbei because they have the power to collectively vote out any member they feel isn't doing their job properly. Recently a regular vote has been instituted asking if each member of the Tatu-Jumbei should remain in office. In actual operations Bwaneis tend to act as commanders although on various occasions their particular skills may be required for a task.

Askaris: The "Lower Rank" of the Kali Mes. While they are unable to vote a Tatu-Jumbei out or vote for his or her replacement, they can run to become a Tatu-Jumbei although there have only been two recorded instances of an Askari winning an election-the most recent being ex-Onder-Jumbei Jimsnn, whose term only lasted for about a year and a half before he was voted out and reduced back to his original rank. The Askaris consist of new members to the Kali Mes as well as members who have yet to fully prove their worth. They also tend to do most of the "grunt work" for the clan compared to the Bwaneis.

Tobr'a: Not exactly a proper "rank" in the Kali Mes, it consists of various informants, "dirty cops" and so on secretly working for the organization. The term applied to them roughly translates to "useless and evil", and is not something they'd necessarily use to refer to them directly if they believe the person might actually know the meaning of the word (the majority of them do not however). Few Tobr'a actually ever ascend in rank as they are generally not considered true members of the clan. They are considered to be helpful to a point but also entirely untrustworthy as most of them are only doing what they do for the money. If they are discovered they will find no help from the Kali Mes because at that point they are truly "useless" to them.

The Tatu-Jumbei

Ra-Jumbei: The "Upper Boss", he is viewed by many as the figurehead leader of the Kali Mes and symbolically he represents their future. He is in charge of major decisions that effect the clan long-term. As such, he spends a fair amount of his time simply enjoying the luxuries his position offers.

Onder-Jumbei: The "Under Boss", he symbolically represents the "present" needs of the Kali Mes as he handles the day-to-day operations and makes decisions regarding short-term matters. He does get to enjoy most of the same luxuries as the Ra-Jumbei, however he tends to have less time in which to do so due to the increased demands of his station.

Shauriaad: Similar to the Consigliere of the Mafia, except she advises both of the Jumbei in relatively equal measure and is often a woman. She is said to symbolically represent the wisdom of the "past" for the Kali Mes, although she must also obviously keep appraised of both the present and future needs of the clan as well. While she is allowed the same luxuries as the other Tatu-Jumbei she spends a fair amount of her time amongst the Bwaneis and Askaris consulting with them and determining their needs and concerns. She also keeps a close watch of other things happening in Sutch that may be of interest to the Kali Mes-searching for opportunities for new operations and so on.

The Current Tatu Jumbei:

The Ra-Jumbei Irgolann
The Onder-Jumbei Torlin
The Shauriaad Lairah Hawker

Also of note is the former Onder Jumbei, Jimsnn who after being voted out was reduced to his original rank of Askari.

Here is the most updated version of the "Kali Mes Tree":

Image

The Main Quest

One thing I'm not sure we've quite established yet is just what exactly the political situation in Sutch is. I believe there was some discussion about the city literally being split into two parts each governed by someone from the respective provinces. Regardless of whether we end up using this particular model we need to establish why there is presently a dispute of sorts that will ultimately result in Sutch becoming entirely part of Hammerfell.

I've already worked out some ideas regarding the Kali Mes' involvement in the conflict. The Ra-Jumbei Irgolann feels comfortable with the present split nature of Sutch as it has made their operations a bit easier since more often than not neither side can determine which has jurisdiction (if anything perhaps both sides are expecting the other to take care of it). Lairah Hawker, the Shauriaad on the other hand sees that the political situation has reached a point where Sutch may ultimately end up entirely in one province or the other. She also recognizes the possibility that even if things remain as they are it could mean that the law enforcement agencies from both sides may eventually decide to work together to bring them down.

With Irgolann stubbornly refusing to take her advice and her own ambition to ascend to what is regarded by many as the Kali Mes' highest position, Lairah has been scheming for the past few years to replace him. Just short of two years ago she ran a subtle yet effective "smear campaign" against the then Onder-Jumbei Jimsnn in order to have him replaced with a candidate whom she personally endorsed, Torlin. This was done partly as a test to her ultimate plan to have Irgolann removed as well, and partly because she wanted someone in the position of Onder-Jumbei whom she felt she could trust and could aid in her plans.

There's always the possibility that the player might decide to kill Irgolann (we can make him powerful and protected enough that he's difficult to kill, but I'm sure we're wanting to avoid making any NPC entirely immortal either) and we might be able to work this into the quest as well. What I'm thinking is that the main reason why Lairah does not want him assassinated is because if he's voted out instead that will result in a re-election. In the instance of an assassination the Onder-Jumbei would take his position automatically (unless he declines the opportunity, and while Lairah trusts Torlin more than she did Jimsnn, she wouldn't trust that he'd decline the position just for her) and the re-election would only be for the recently vacated Onder-Jumbei position (which would still be a bit of a step up for her, and be significant since neither Jumbei position has been held by a woman or non-Redguard) which isn't quite what she's hoping for.

It's possible that the player will become involved in a quest given by Lairah to help her ascend to Ra-Jumbei. It's also possible that Torlin may ask the player to assassinate Irgolann because his allegiance with Lairah isn't quite as strong as she may think. This shouldn't necessarily be the central focus of the main quest but it would regardless be a key event within it. Simply having a new Ra-Jumei who supports Sutch being merged into Hammerfell may not be enough to tilt the scales entirely afterall.

We've had some discussion also about their being a conflict between the Kali Mes and a group of Vampires occupying the sewers and tunnels underneath the city which cuts off some important smuggling routes, and perhaps even one which may connect with Rihad (though the player obviously wouldn't be able to travel all the way through such a passage). The Vampires may also represent a group in favor of Sutch being integrated into Cyrodiil as the Imperials may be more accepting of their presence than Redguards.

There's also the idea that this may be one of the various Blades quests that can be completed in order to eventually reach the rank at which the Cyrodiil main quest becomes activated. It would involve infiltrating the Kali Mes hence providing a role-playing option for "good" characters as well, whereas "bad" characters could have an ulterior motive and perhaps there could be a choice at some point (though obviously not one that could get you kicked out of the Blades) between doing what the mission requires or helping the Kali Mes.

The main reason I've made this new thread is I think we really need to brainstorm what we'll be doing with Sutch and a possible "main quest" involving the city and how it ends up becoming integrated into Hammerfell.

Sorry for another wall of text, I'm just full of ideas is all. :P :scamp:
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby Helena » 31 Aug 2011, 00:14

Sounds good. I can't comment in any detail since I don't know a lot about Redguard culture, but the Kali Mes concept is interesting and you've clearly put a lot of thought into it.

I'd like to know more about the background to Sutch. How did the city get into this state in the first place, and why hasn't the Imperial government intervened? Why do the Kali Mes care so much about Sutch becoming part of Hammerfell, when both provinces are governed by the Empire in any case? I guess it's the difference between being ruled directly by the Imperials, or by a 'puppet' Redguard ruler who could be bribed or threatened into looking the other way?

I can't see the Blades putting up with an operative who basically aids and encourages a criminal group working against the Empire. In all honesty, I think should be a choice the player has to make: loyalty to the Empire, or other rewards from aiding the Kali Mes (money, reputation, helping the Redguard cause, whatever).

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby SamirA » 31 Aug 2011, 00:57

Good points Helena, very good.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby DJGamer » 31 Aug 2011, 03:03

I should mention an idea I came up with in the Lairah Hawker character thread. Her motivation for wanting Sutch to integrate into Hammerfell is partly to start expanding the Kali Mes beyond Sutch and particularly into Rihad using the underground passages that reportedly connect the two cities as smuggling routes. It's not particularly like they couldn't do it as things are right now but the current Ra Jumbei is far too comfortable with the way things are now and won't recognize that things need to change in order for the Kali Mes to move forward.

I do agree that we need to flesh out Sutch's history a lot more though and that's also part of the reason why I started this thread.
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby Helena » 31 Aug 2011, 10:09

Some more points to consider:

- Who is the current Count/Countess of Sutch? I assume they're either a weak ruler (to have allowed this to happen in the first place) or the Kali Mes has some kind of hold over them. Or perhaps the previous ruler died without heirs, leaving a power vacuum?

- Do the KM have support amongst the local Redguard population, or do they rule by fear, or (more likely) a mixture of both? In RL, criminal gangs often gain some 'legitimacy' by providing services to the poor and disadvantaged, or meting out extra-judicial punishments to criminals who escape the law.

- What about the local Imperials? I remember someone saying the richer citizens had just packed up and left, but it seems unlikely that this would happen instantly - it's more likely to occur gradually over a period of time. Perhaps the remaining wealthy residents have retreated into their own heavily-guarded enclave, while the poor and middle classes have to pay 'protection' fees to the KM to survive.

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby DJGamer » 02 Sep 2011, 15:51

SamirA wrote:I wrote this up in class today while bored of lecture.

Kali Mes - Crime Syndicate in Sutch with beginnings in Hammerfell. Almost entirely comprised of Redguards though a few Kajit and Imperials also may be found in their ranks. Operates solely in Sutch due to the city being in a state of limbo between the jurisdictions of the Empire and the officials in Hammerfell. The Kali Mes were forced out of other Hemmerfell cities by the incoming Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood sects who had more backing within the Empire and wanted the territory to be theirs. Since Sutch is in its own bubble world TG and DB sects can't get the backing to move into the area and the Kali Mes have taken advantage of this. By all accounts the Kali Mes run the city government from behind closed doors. The Kali Mes activities include smuggling items between Cyrodiil and Hammerfell thereby avoiding the taxes that would normally be levied. They also serve in the roles one would associate with the TG and DB, such as theft and murder for hire.


I found this in the original Kali Mes thread. I think that the DB and TG are not quite enough however to drive the Kali Mes out due to their specialized natures. The Thieves Guild obviously specializes in stealing things while the Dark Brotherhood deals in assassinations. The Kali Mes on the other hand deal in a broader spectrum of crime, so while the entry of the DB and TG would certainly encroach on certain areas of their operations it wouldn't necessarily pose a threat.

Which is why I think I'd suggest adding pirates to the mix of things that originally drove them away from Hammerfell-and perhaps add that all of these things started to come into the picture around the same time and basically overwhelmed the Kali Mes. Sutch was probably just starting up at the time and they saw the opportunity and took it before any of the other groups could.

In the present day, the Kali Mes actually have some connections with the Dark Brotherhood, occasionally seeking their aid in dealing with people who think they'll be safe once they escape from Sutch.

Additionally the overall "political" situation isn't quite as threatening as it was originally and Lairah believes that diplomatic solutions are much more viable and may in fact be beneficial.

However, she is not rushing anything-her main goal in the short term is securing the underground passage to Rihad. As an elf, she has an even greater advantage in terms of plotting out long-term plans and that is part of why she feels she is best suited for the position.

---------------------------------

Edit: I did a little research on the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guilds on UESP.

The formation of the Dark Brotherhood is dated to be sometime between 2E 358 and 2E 360. They supposedly started out as part of the Morag Tong and split off after a dispute.

There is little information on UESP regarding the exact history of the Thieves Guild. It appears likely that there is no singular Thieves Guild organization for all of Tamriel, although not every version of the guild is restricted to a single Province. For instance, the Thieves Guild in Daggerfall stretches throughout the Iliac Bay region. This is most likely a matter of game design choice moreso than lore. Since there is no lore regarding the origins of the Thieves Guild or their presence and history in Hammerfell, some of it may need to be invented-at least in regards to how it relates to the Kali Mes' history (and we may want to ensure that nothing we establish in this regard will conflict with a potential Hammerfell mod).

There isn't much info on the migration of the Dark Brotherhood from Morrowind to other parts of Tamriel so we might estimate it to be perhaps around 2E 362 although it's possible their spread was more gradual and or they did not reach a point where they became a threat to the Kali Mes until later on.

If we go with the idea that the Kali Mes were driven from Hammerfell during that year it would mean they've been in Sutch for 962 years-I'm really not sure if it should be that long a time or not. Again, we could establish that the Dark Brotherhood did not have a signifant enough prescense in Hammerfell until a fair amount of time after their original formation, and perhaps shave off a century or two from that figure.
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Kali Mes 2.0 & The Sutch MQ

Postby DJGamer » 02 May 2012, 20:55

I was thinking of a potential PnP campaign featuring Sutch and the Kali Mes and/or a mod for Skyrim which expands upon the events in P:C-showing how the Kali Mes grow and expand further into Hammerfell and how other events affect this attempt at expansion.

This led me to come up with the idea of the "Grand Jumbei" (tentative name). Back in the days when the Kali Mes operated throughout Hammerfell each major city had its own Tatu-Jumbei and the Grand Jumbei was an individual who oversaw the Kali Mes as a larger organization.

The Grand Jumbei has no Onder Jumbei as every decision s/he makes is likely to be a major one. However, a Grand Jumbei is expected to have a Shauriaad whom they appoint themselves. The Shauriaad of the Grand Jumbei is expected to periodically visit with the Tatu Jumbeis in each city to better understand their needs and use that knowledge to advise the Grand Jumbei.

The Grand Jumbei is not necessarily elected, but rather a person can challenge them to fair one-on-one combat for the right to replace them. Any member of the Tatu Jumbei has the right to challenge, and and any individual member of the Kali Mes can challenge after receiving the blessing of at least two of the Ra Jumbeis. The Ra Jumbeis are expected to judge the individual on their character, leadership qualities and to a lesser extent, their abilities in combat. While a Ra Jumbei could refuse to give a blessing out of loyalty to the Grand Jumbei, they are expected to base their decision on an honest and fair assessment, both out of a sense of honor and to some extent also a desire for self-preservation.

Should the challenger gain the blessing of two other Ra Jumbeis and defeat the Grand Jumbei-they are allowed to take action against any Ra Jumbei who denied them a blessing. If they're lucky, the new Grand Jumbei will let it go-but if they're extremely unlucky they could be faced with execution.

The Ra Jumbeis are considered to collectively play a role similar to the Onder Jumbei in relation to the Grand Jumbei. The Grand Jumbei deals with issues effecting the entire clan and sometimes helps plan and coordinate major operations between cities.

Obviously at the time of P:C there is no Grand Jumbei. I think that part of the backstory may be that the last Grand Jumbei was assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood, which formed part of the trigger for their exodus to Sutch.

My idea is that in the time between P:C/Morrowind and Skyrim, the Kali Mes start expanding their operations-first into Rihad and eventually into other settlements and cities in Hammerfell. At a certain point a second Tatu-Jumbei is established in Rihad and eventually yet another in a third city. Around that point Lairah decides to declare herself the new Grand Jumbei-electing her daughter, whom was conceived, born and grew up in the intervening time, as her Shauriaad.

At first, there were no challenges to her declaration. Many agreed that she was best-suited to the task, having played such a critical role in starting to return the clan to its former glory. Then the war with the Thalmor started (I'd have to research its effects on Hammerfell) and it stirred some things up-somehow leading Lairah, her daughter and a handful of Kali Mes to retreat into Skyrim for some reason that would make up the plot of the quest for the mod I mentioned earlier.

That mod would be quite a ways off if it ever happens, I'd certainly work on it only after Sutch is finished and by then I'd hopefully have a better computer as well.

Main reason I'm bringing the concept up is because it would also be part of the Kali Mes backstory and perhaps also offer insight into Lairah's long-term ambitions.

I'm also considering whether or not we should have a different word instead of "Grand" for "Grand Jumbei".
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects


Return to Gold Coast



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron