Beverages

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 10 Aug 2014, 02:10

Worsas wrote:I have a possibly unpopular suggestion on this beverage matter:

To me the ale bottle does not work that well, if it is supposed to be Colovian Ale. I would much rather see a big glass jug, a bit like the one you have about everywhere. And I would honestly just call it XX Ale, as it is called in Skyrim. I imagine that a label like the one you showed above, would look much better on a glass bottle aswell.

Would it be alright, if I used the Akul/Aliyew - Bottle for the Anvil Cider proposed by Infragris instead? We could keep calling it Akul or Aliyew as both names work well along with the appearance of the bottle. The bottle design works better with the theme of the Gold Coast but not necessarily with the theme of northern Colovian areas, I imagine.

I can certainly make up a concept for a glass bottle, I assume you mean something like this? http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0222/0 ... 1390503080

Both the akul and mori bottles are based on antique clay beer bottles though, so as far as fitting into Colovia, I personally think it's fine, but I'm happy to defer to the will of the majority. I would like the name akul to follow our ale though, since they're phonetically similar and it makes ours just a trifle more unique.

I do like your ideas for the gold coast cider though. Would this be replacing the cazenave brandy?

EDIT: EJ, you've convinced me. Let's go for a wax tag on the mori bottle and a label on the akul bottle. Is everyone happy with the brandy bottles though?

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SamirA
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Re: Beverages

Postby SamirA » 10 Aug 2014, 03:17

Is that the blue one? I think it is fine, yes.
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Worsas
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Re: Beverages

Postby Worsas » 10 Aug 2014, 17:20

I can certainly make up a concept for a glass bottle, I assume you mean something like this? http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0222/0 ... 1390503080

You don't have to. I would just reshape and retexture one of the empty vanilla jugs a bit for this. I'm still not sure on Akul for a beer. It has a very foreign sound to it and I always thought the Colovian should retain a certain basicness, if you know what I mean. That's why I suggested using a glass bottle, in the first place.

This not to say I would find the slightly more exotic clay bottles or alternative names generally unfitting for them. Using the generic name is not something I would not do in lack of alternatives, but for intention to show the familiar character of the imps. But I'm a point where I'd say, let's use Akul, if you see a gain in it, although I still think something that would be immediately recognizable as Ale, would underline the relation to the Nords better.

I do like your ideas for the gold coast cider though. Would this be replacing the cazenave brandy?

So far my plan has been to implement them all as one last modelling undertaking before te update. I like the bottle shapes a lot. Only the wax looks complicated to get look right, but I'll try my best.

EJ, you've convinced me. Let's go for a wax tag on the mori bottle and a label on the akul bottle. Is everyone happy with the brandy bottles though?

I'm not convinced, personally. The Mori would start to look like some pseudo-native produce that has been taken into manufactured mass production with brand and all that stuff. A label could still work, but we could just aswell leave it. From the vanilla game, we know that paper is a common, cheap material across the empire and books are a common good in households.

We could just make it so that glass bottles are given labels and other bottles (such as Flin and cyrodillic brandy) can do without. This may not be faithful to middle ages or antiquity, but it's not needed, as the vanilla game isn't either and this is a fantasy universe. We do not need to stick our standards too high.

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Re: Beverages

Postby Worsas » 10 Aug 2014, 23:01


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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 11 Aug 2014, 00:27

Looks great, my main recommendation is that the color should be a darker red-orange, more like our redware. It should also have more of a polished/shiny look to it.

I'm also having second thoughts on the black wax seal, maybe a dark cherry red instead?

EDIT:
This not to say I would find the slightly more exotic clay bottles or alternative names generally unfitting for them. Using the generic name is not something I would not do in lack of alternatives, but for intention to show the familiar character of the imps. But I'm a point where I'd say, let's use Akul, if you see a gain in it, although I still think something that would be immediately recognizable as Ale, would underline the relation to the Nords better.
I don't want to fight or have any hard feelings on this, and I definitely don't want to be stomping all over the place saying my opinions are the only right ones (hi sasquatch!).

My main concern, as I've expressed previously, is that it's going to be years before we can really flex our creative muscles in Nibenay, and in the meantime, I want to make sure that we aren't just retreading the same ground as Oblivion as far as our presentation of the West. With place names and cultural artifacts like food/drink, I think it's worth going the extra mile wherever possible to say that this ain't the Cyrodiil you've played before, especially since our Gold Coast release is going to be, stylistically if not necessarily in terms of execution, very similar to Oblivion. Which isn't bad at all, I think we can all agree that what we've done so far looks phenomenal. But since the big selling point for our mod, vs something like Skyblivion or Beyond Skyrim or just playing Oblivion, is that it hearkens back to a different time in the lore where things were less immediately recognizable. I mean, I've been trawling in the Imperial lore for years now and I just now learned that flin was supposed to be Imperial whiskey, because neither the bottle nor the name give that impression. I think that's a really cool feeling that we should strive to recreate where appropriate, where people think that they're seeing something really alien and different and then we let them find out through dialogue or whatever that "Oh crap, you mean this was beer the whole time?"

As far as the name scheme goes, I don't want to beat a dead horse any further than I have so if people want it to be called ale I'll let it go. As far as similarity to the Nords goes, we're going to be able to emphasize that elsewhere but as far as naming conventions go, there's definitely etymological differences- just look at counts/dukes vs. thanes/jarls, or any of the character names in Oblivion vs Skyrim, so I don't think there's harm in us having a name that's similar, but just a little bit off.

You're right that we need elements of the familiar as well, and I think we've done so in a lot of ways- my armors, for instance, are pretty much vanilla Greco-Roman, though everything we've done, whether familiar or exotic, has a certain feel to it that lends to a unique sense of culture. I just want to make sure that we're adding those unique elements everywhere across the project, whenever it makes sense.

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SamirA
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Re: Beverages

Postby SamirA » 11 Aug 2014, 01:03

That is beautiful right there. I love the wax seal. I think it is great with or without Jiubs color change suggestions. If it is going to be more reddish we need to decide if our redware is going to be tweaked first.
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EJRS
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Re: Beverages

Postby EJRS » 11 Aug 2014, 07:16

Worsas wrote:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22362022/pics/kurst.jpg


If I would change anything about this, it would be to make it a bit more squat (reducing it by about 15-20% on the Z-axis), and also change the colour of the clay according to Jiub suggestion, while keeping the black seal.
The overall colour scheme of the gold coast is rather washed-out and desaturated, which fits the architecture and landscape really well, but my feeling is that the lack of colour needs to be weighed up by having the clutter and misc objects be a bit warmer and richer in scheme. That would also make for a really nice aesthetic effect, I think, if kept within limits and not made all too contrasting.

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Re: Beverages

Postby Worsas » 11 Aug 2014, 23:42

Next version based on the given input:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... rst_v2.jpg

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 12 Aug 2014, 18:40

Not necessarily a "beverage", but more like trade goods in a similar vein: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlqw8f5pg1gwr ... tgoods.JPG

These would be similar products to Telvanni Bug Musk in terms of pricing/rarity.

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Praedator
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Re: Beverages

Postby Praedator » 12 Aug 2014, 19:24

I like the shapes and design of both, but the ribbon on olive oil is a bit meh imo. I think a print of an olive branch with a couple of olives would do great.

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MoonAndStar
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Re: Beverages

Postby MoonAndStar » 12 Aug 2014, 19:31

Looks nice, Jiub. I think the olive oil should use the sload oil bottle and vice-versa. I would think Sload oil is more rare and expensive, warranting a fancy ribboned bottle; while olive oil should be a pretty common product, accessible to most.

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Praedator
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Re: Beverages

Postby Praedator » 12 Aug 2014, 22:13

MoonAndStar wrote:Looks nice, Jiub. I think the olive oil should use the sload oil bottle and vice-versa. I would think Sload oil is more rare and expensive, warranting a fancy ribboned bottle; while olive oil should be a pretty common product, accessible to most.


That would work indeed, also solves ribbon problem :)

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 12 Aug 2014, 22:33

That'd work too. It'd be rather funny though, as I actually based them on photo references of olive oil and whale oil bottles.

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Re: Beverages

Postby Praedator » 12 Aug 2014, 22:53

its magic its MW :)

Worsas
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Re: Beverages

Postby Worsas » 13 Aug 2014, 01:50


EJRS
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Re: Beverages

Postby EJRS » 13 Aug 2014, 09:01

Worsas wrote:Familiar look but unfamiliar name:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/223 ... ale_v1.jpg


For the label, I would go for a standing rectangle of the same proportions, and use only one of the two mandrake-pictures, but increase that one in size to match the width of the "akul"-text. Perhaps also a slightly darker outline for the motif as well as the lettering to make them clearer. I would also go for a less modern-looking font, perferrably something illegible, perhaps with a rhomboid dot on each side of the text (could be in red).
My thinking behind the illegibility is that these bottles are, as I understand, supposed to be coming from different breweries, thus the label would likely give the name of the region and/or producer rather than simply stating the content in capital letters. I mean, how often do you see a bottle of beer with "BEER" printed all over it? ;)

But these are all nitpickings from the backseat, don't pay me all that much attention (and fab work on the kurst).

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Re: Beverages

Postby Worsas » 13 Aug 2014, 10:09

For the label, I would go for a standing rectangle of the same proportions, and use only one of the two mandrake-pictures, but increase that one in size to match the width of the "akul"-text.

That could work with a less broad bottle, but I doubt it would look good in this case. I think i could alternatively see the label, St. Jiub created previously, as it is more detailled. But I was already halfday done with this one when i remembered about it. I still don't see a bad need for an exchange, though, as it is supposed to look more or less like the current wine bottles

Doesn't Akula already serve the function of not saying "beer"? Anyway, the label is something you usually won't pay much attention to and it's very small. I was too tired yesterday to search for a more fitting font, but looking at it again, it doesn't bug me very much. It doesn't look that unfitting. If you other feel different, let me know.

I'd honestly just like to close in on the beverages and not have them drain much more time and attention from other aspects of the mod. I was originally going to create the Cazenave still, but I'm on the fence regarding that as the bottle design maybe looks a tad too modern and we already have a goldcoast-based product with the Aliyew now.

On the two new export goods I think they should retain their original bottles. Having the sload oil in a small, slightly cruder bottle works better for me than the flowery other one that would somehow contradict the character of the content. The price of the object is sufficient to stress the difference in value.

Edit: On a second thought, what is the purpose of the sload oil? Does it serve as parfume, as medicine (like the sload soap) or as nutrition (like whale oil)? If it serves as perfume, I would indeed use the more flowery bottle for it, make it small and keep the black glass.

Otherwise they should stay as they are on the concept . In any case, the sload soap bottle should get the black glass as it looks more expensive and fitting than green glass that is used for any regular bottle. The olive oil as a produce that is green itself works better in a green bottle, imo.

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SamirA
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Re: Beverages

Postby SamirA » 13 Aug 2014, 23:36

It could serve as lantern oil like whale oil.
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Infragris
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Re: Beverages

Postby Infragris » 14 Aug 2014, 16:47

Sload Oil is the base for many cosmetics, and has slight medicinal/cosmetic alchemical effects. It is mostly produced in Nibenese refineries and by semi-legal hunting expeditions on the Abecean ocean. Based on this text.

It's a bit too rare to make a very effective lantern oil: the eastern industry is in crisis and the hunt is illegal.

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SamirA
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Re: Beverages

Postby SamirA » 15 Aug 2014, 02:29

I was thinking it might have been a by-product of the talked of sload soap refinery things we had discussed. You are the lore master here :D
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