Books from TESV: Skyrim

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in Province: Cyrodiil.
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Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Osidian » 10 Dec 2011, 14:49

As suggested here, this will be a topic to discuss which books from the recent TESV will be added to P:C.

I have created an .esp file with 22 books I think we can use, but feel free to discuss removing any of them or adding others. And please report any errors you find.

These are books found only in TESV, I didn't include books that were also present in TESIV. Also, I obviously excluded books clearly stated to be written after the events of TESIII and books with tips about the gameplay mechanics of TESV.

I added the books to Terurise Girvayne's House in Seyda Neen, so if you want to check them ingame just go pay her a visit. This cell should be cleaned in TESAME before merging this to PC_Data, of course.

Note that all the books use the same model, right now (except the Lusty Argonian Maid v2, that uses the same as v1).


Books included:
Boethiah's Proving - Boethiah is summoned and asks her followers to prove the worth of their existence.
Note: I removed the note in the end inviting you to join the cult of Boethiah near Windhelm.

Effects of the Elder Scrolls - A thesis on the four different types of readers of the Elder Scrolls.
Note: I moved the date and the "dictated to" part from the end to the top.

Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons - A guide to dwemer constructs.
Herbane's Bestiary: Hagravens - A guide to the hagravens of the Reach.
Herbane's Bestiary: Ice Wraiths - A guide to the Ice Wraiths of Skyrim.
Note: These books are written in a boastful and misinformed way (the dwarves were a race of "men and women the size of large children, all with beards"). The first mentions the ruins of Mzulft, but never says it is in Skyrim.

Horker Attacks - A tale of a horker attacking a hunter.

Olaf and the Dragon - A discussion on the veracity of the tale of Olaf One-Eye and Numinex.

Physicalities of Werewolves - An anatomical study of werewolves on live subjects.
Note: One of the werewolves has control over the transformation, and in TES3 werewolves are forced to transform every night, without any kind of control over it, but I still think this book's a keeper.

Songs of the Return Vol 2, Vol 7, Vol 19, Vol 24, Vol 56 - Tales of Ysgramor and his 500 companions, that were mentioned in the 1stPGE!
Note: These are probably my favorite books in TESV. In Volume 24, parts of text are within brackets, which I found strange since this doesn't happen in the other 4 books. Still, I kept them that way, since the developer who wrote them surely knows what he's doing better than I do :P But I can remove these brackets if you prefer.

The Alduin/Akatosh Dichotomy - A priest's deductions on the relation between Akatosh and Alduin

The "Madmen" of the Reach - A book offering a different view on the Forsworn.

The Book of the Dragonborn - A treatise on the Dragonborn
Note: Since this book features the prophecy of the dragonborn and is related to TESV main quest, I'd said it should only be available in places like Weynon Priory's Chapel (it was written by a priest there), the Imperial Library and other important libraries in Cyrodiil.

The Woodcutter's Wife - A story of mistrust, murder, and magic.
The Cabin in the Woods - A sequel to The Woodcutter's Wife.

The Legend of Red Eagle - about the invasion of the Reach by the First Empire

The Lusty Argonian Maid, v2 - Another excerpt from Crassius Curio's play.

The Tale of Dro'Zira - A Kahjiit tells his son the tale of Dro'Zira, who fought alongside Wulfharth at Red Mountain.

Yngol and the Sea-Ghosts - Ysgramor goes alone into the sea, searching for his son Yngol.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Osidian » 10 Dec 2011, 15:01

These are some of the books I did not include in the .esp file above, but we can discuss if they should be:


A Minor Maze: Shalidor & Labyrinthian - The history of Labyrinthian, the test built by Shalidor the Archmage deep within the ruins of Bromjunaar, the city believed to be the capital of the Dragon Cult.
Comment: This book probably is better suited for Skyrim-HotN than our mod (and only if they will accept this new dragon lore into their vision of Skyrim).

Amongst the Draugr - About the draugr and how they are related to the Dragon Cult
Comment: This book probably is better suited for Skyrim-HotN than our mod (and only if they will accept this new dragon lore into their vision of Skyrim).

The Death of a Wanderer - The tale of an argonian adventurer that explains the reason behind the symbols on the claws that open the sealed doors in nordic crypts.
Comment: Interesting but probably not very relevant for our mod (or even SHotN).

Dragon Language: Myth no More - A researcher tries to discover the secrets of the Dragon Language.
Comment: Meh.

Dwemer Inquiries Vol I, Vol II, Vol III - Three books with reasons why there are Dwemer ruins in Skyrim (and may even exist in Cyrodiil and Argonia), why their architecture is different from the one we see in Vvardenfell ruins and even hints at the possibility of Dwemer being still present somewhere in Tamriel.
Comment: It goes against the known lore of TES3 I guess.

Ghosts in the Storm - How an adventurer and his companions were attacked by the falmer.

Great Harbingers - Chronicle of some of the leaders of the Companions
Comment: Better suited for SHotN

Imperial Report on Saarthal - written by a Mages Guild scholar
Night of Tears - an inquiry into de cause of the elven attack on Saarthal
Comment: Both these books suggest there was some great power hidden in Saarthal that the elves wanted to take from the nords. These books are related to the main quest of the College of Winterhold in TES5.

Nightingales: Fact or Fiction? - about the existence of this mysterious group of thieves.

Ode To The Tundrastriders - dedicated to mamoths.
Comment: Better suited for SHotN

Song of the Askelde Men - A traditional nordic poem about a ghost stalking those that killed him.
Comment: Better suited for SHotN

The Dragon War - a text describing the war between dragons and men.
Comment: We should add this one only if SHotN accepts this new dragon lore into their vision of Skyrim.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 10 Dec 2011, 16:23

Good work Osidian. I'll give these a look and we can begin discussion on the others you mentioned.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 10 Dec 2011, 16:35

I'm not sure about the Lusty Argonian Maid v2. In Morrowind it's a new play and only one copy exists, which is given to you by the playwright. To have part of the play in Cyrodiil would be extremely odd imo.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Osidian » 10 Dec 2011, 17:01

TerrifyingDaedricFoe wrote:I'm not sure about the Lusty Argonian Maid v2. In Morrowind it's a new play and only one copy exists, which is given to you by the playwright. To have part of the play in Cyrodiil would be extremely odd imo.

You're right, I forgot about that. I'll remove it.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby DJGamer » 10 Dec 2011, 19:13

Some of these books I'd be hesitant to include in P:C, particularly ones that refer specifically to things that exist in Skyrim. I'd suggest including those in SHotN rather than P:C. For instance Herbane's Bestiary-unless of course we plan on including Ice Wraiths in the Jerall Mountains area.

It's also possible that some of these books could be found in Bruma or in the houses of any Nords who moved to Cyrodiil from Skyrim and took some of their books with them.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 10 Dec 2011, 19:25

Cyrodiil is the heart of the Empire. It has imports from all over Tamriel. We will be including ingredients from Morrowind and Skyrim, so books are not out of the question. Some may be relegated to library collections.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Scamp » 11 Dec 2011, 03:33

Having Ice Wraiths in the Jerall Mountains doesn't even sound like a bad idea.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Lord Andres Indoril » 01 Apr 2012, 17:59

Sorry for the necromancy, but what exactly turns Dwemer Inquiries against known lore?
It was already said in dialogue that:
Knight Errant of the Imperial Legion wrote:"The ruins of the lost Dwemer race are found everywhere in Tamriel, but are most common in Morrowind, once the native land of the Dwemer."


Hasphat Antobolis wrote:The Dwemer are the fabled lost Dwarven race whose ruins and splendid artifacts are scattered across Tamriel. Elves use the term "Dwemer," connoting variously "deep-delving," "profound," and "close-counseled"; Imperial usage is "Dwarven," derived in fable from the affectionate regard of the Giant races for their "little" Dwemer friends. There are several Dwemer sites on Vvardenfell, and many have found Dwemer artifacts.



Admittedly, I paid no real attention to this series of books, but I am curious as to where lies the conflict?

The lack of dwemer ruins was one of the greatest disappointments I got from Oblivion. While there would certainly not be as many in the whole province of Cyrodiil as there was on Vvardenfel, I would still expect to find several Dwemer ruins.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 01 Apr 2012, 18:23

Im not opposed to there being a few Dwemer ruins, most around the border of Hammerfell and Morrowind, but maybe a few in the interior of the province as well.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Tarius » 01 Apr 2012, 23:00

We could put a well hidden Dwemer outpost somewhere above the Golden Coast region.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Osidian » 01 Apr 2012, 23:33

I don't remember the books that well, but what I wrote there about the existence of ruins in Argonia and Cyrodiil was probably the reason I said it was against the lore.

I was certain they would only only exist in Morrowind and Hammerfell (and areas of other provinces bordering these two). Morrowind was their ancestral home and Hammerfell the place where the Rourken went, via Cyrodiil. I stand corrected now, I guess.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Tarius » 01 Apr 2012, 23:50

An interesting idea would be to have an outpost get uncovered during a rock slide and the dwemer machines start terrorizing the countryside.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 02 Apr 2012, 01:59

That could be a nice quest Tarius. I like the idea of including a few Dwemer, I mean it is obvioulsy talked about them being around so it would be a bit odd not to find a few. We need to figure out how many and where exactly we will be adding them in now.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Helena » 02 Apr 2012, 10:06

My main problem with Dwemer ruins in Cyrodiil, apart from the fact that they're everywhere in MW and I'm frankly tired of them, is that Cyrodiil already has its own 'precursor' race. The Ayleids are going to be enough of a headache in themselves without having to work out where the heck the Dwemer fit into all this, especially since there's no mention of them in any of the books on Cyrodiilic history. That said, a few Dwemer ruins along or near the borders with Morrowind/Hammerfell shouldn't be a problem. I like Tarius' idea for a quest.

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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 02 Apr 2012, 13:44

Yeah, a few Dwemer outposts / watchtowers in the Valus Mountains and in the Colovian Highlands along the border with Hammerfell shouldn't be too much of an issue.

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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 02 Apr 2012, 18:15

I agree, leave them to our borders of Hammerfell and Morrowind and only have a couple. This fits with Morrowind dialogue and doesn't allow for us to go crazy with them and not have enough Ayleid ruins. I'm thinking 5-7 total in our mod.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby DJGamer » 02 Apr 2012, 20:03

SamirA wrote:I agree, leave them to our borders of Hammerfell and Morrowind and only have a couple. This fits with Morrowind dialogue and doesn't allow for us to go crazy with them and not have enough Ayleid ruins. I'm thinking 5-7 total in our mod.


I'll have to read those books sometime. I am somewhat curious as to whether the Dwemer Ruins near Hammerfell should have a different style or not.

If we do a few new the Skyrim border I'd imagine we'd use whatever tile set shotn develops if they make one at all.

It seems that if shotn takes an approach similar to ours then they probably wouldn't have much choice in the matter-if there's a reason established in lore as to why the ruins look different in Skyrim then that's all there is to it. That doesn't mean their version needs to look identical to Skyrim's or that they can't include a few of Morrowind's Dwemer meshes here and there (particularly the clutter items).

I supposed whether or not we'd use them would boil down to:

  • Whether or not they decide to go with Skyrim's updated lore in this area.
  • How much including the meshes and textures might add to our file size.
  • Whether or not they have the set finished by the time we start working on that region.
  • Whether or not we think it would make sense to have Skyrim-type Dwemer ruins in northern Cyrodiil.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby SamirA » 02 Apr 2012, 20:09

There is no need to add new tilesets. Sure the rourken dwemer probably developed new stuff, but across their treck to hammerfell I imagine most stuff was the same as we see in morrowind. Making a new set for a handfull of ruins just makes no sense. Were we actually making hammerfell then yes new dwemer stuff would be needed.
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Re: Books from TESV: Skyrim

Postby Tarius » 03 Apr 2012, 00:36

By outpost, I mean something like a spy outpost. The actual entrance would be well hidden. If you have played Greater Dwemer Ruins and have been to Soltheim, you may have noticed a hidden dwemer outpost at the bas of the mountain chain there. Darknut basically textured a dwemer door the same as the surrounding rocks. Had I not been paying attention I would have gone by it entirely.
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