The Order of the Lamp

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in Province: Cyrodiil.
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SamirA
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The Order of the Lamp

Postby SamirA » 15 Dec 2010, 08:08

After doing some research at the Imperial Library I have come across and order of knights that would be very interesting to incorporate into our mod. The Order of the Lamp is a group of knights that are charged with protecting the Mages Guild in Tamriel. They have been around since the guild was formed back in the Second Era by Vanus Galeron. The knights hold a very important position that is interwoven with protecting the guild. We can use this faction as one that the player can join. New armor and weapons would be needed for the order and it would be a wonderful way to gain favor with the mages guild.

The game book Origins of the Mages Guild contains information on the Order of the Lamp. Also archmage Traven in Cyrodiil dispatched some of the Knights to arrest a mage for practicing necromancy in Orsinium so they are far reaching and prestigious. just another of those nice things Bethesda left out of Oblivion.

Zackg suggested using the Order of the Lamp as a sort of detective agency to launch preemptive strikes on threats to the Mages Guild. They would do the detective work and then use their forces to crush the threat. Each Mages Guild in Cyrodiil should have a small detachment of Lamp Knights either in the Guild itself or nearby in their own building/complex.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 31 Jul 2011, 04:46

SamirA, I'm working on Pelagiad Expanded. Since it is an expanded Imperial fort town with a Mages guild (and other guilds), would you expect to find a couple members of the Order of the Lamp there? I'm wanting to know if I should include a few Order of the Lamp NPCs or not.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby SamirA » 31 Jul 2011, 19:40

Yes, theoretically there should be order of the lamp knights at every mages guild.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 01 Aug 2011, 06:39

Isn't the Fighters Guild in good standing with the Mages Guild? I was going to ask why don't they just hire the Fighters Guild to help them instead of the Order of the Lamp, but then perhaps it is more convenient to already have another guild service member within your own halls at your disposal. And the Mages Guild probably pays less for having the Order of the Lamp work for them than the Fighters Guild, as they are strictly for protecting the Mages Guild, whereas Fighters Guild is solving combat-related problems in general. At least that's how I see it.

If you were to include an Order of the Lamp, would a Palatinus, who is in charge of the Order, be at all guild locations? (not necessarily live there, per se)

Also, in a town like Pelagiad (once a small fort village; now a sprawling metropolis), would you expect to see the Palatinus and other Order of the Lamp members hanging around in the guild halls of the Mages Guild?
There isn't much information on the Order, and so we don't even know if they had their own guild building or if they just stayed at the Mages Guild and then went home to their families after the day was over.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby SamirA » 01 Aug 2011, 09:17

The Palatinus is the leader not just a leader. He would be located near the archmage. I would expect to see order knights everywhere within the mages guild. They are part of the guild they just aren't wizards themselves. I imagine most are eldritch knights types rather than pure fighters.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 01 Aug 2011, 20:57

1. Are Archmage and Archmagister the same thing, just spelled differently?

2. Do Order of the Lamp knights live at the Mages guild? Or only work there when they are needed for protection and just spend the rest of their time at their homes doing their daily living activities like most citizens?

3. Since Trebonius Artorius is the archmage of Vvardenfell (mainland Morrowind, too?), living in Vivec, does that mean that the Palatinus would also live in Vivec Foreign Quarter?

4. Is there just one archmagister assigned to each province? TESII Daggerfall had one but without name. He also doesn't appear in-game. Can there only be one archmage/magister per province?

5. For a town like Pelagiad, according to Origin of the Mages Guild 2nd paragraph from bottom, you would have one guildmagister in charge of the Mages Guild, right? Although Galerion said himself that the hierarchy of the guild is not really followed that strictly. Because according to how he describes it, you would have a palatinus at every single guild location since the palatinus is part of the Master-at-Arms' counsel, who in turn, is part of the guildmagister's counsel.

When you're playing TESIII, would it be good to have all the counsel components listed in that book in the Pelagiad Mages Gulid? Or do you think it would be a waste of time to include those types of NPCs?
Thanks!
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby SamirA » 01 Aug 2011, 21:10

1. Im pretty sure that is correct.
2. I would think order knights would have a barracks near or adjoining a mages guild.
3. Yes.
4. Yes, except for Morrowind which may have two. Vvardenfell is such a different environment that it is special due to many circumstances. You might look at it as a seperate province really.
5. It would seem that the palatinus is less of an overall head than I imagined from the other references to the mages guild. I suppose they are more like guard captains and there would be one at each guildhall. There would certainly be one with Trebonius though.

I personally would not find it a waste of time to find all of those NPC's. You are "expanding" Pelegiad so it should begin to encompass more of the people that should actually be there than you find in the vanilla game. Remember each TES game is merely a representation. There is much more in lore that is never seen but can easily be added with mods.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 01 Aug 2011, 21:51

SamirA wrote:I personally would not find it a waste of time to find all of those NPC's. You are "expanding" Pelegiad so it should begin to encompass more of the people that should actually be there than you find in the vanilla game. Remember each TES game is merely a representation. There is much more in lore that is never seen but can easily be added with mods.


Right, that's what I'm trying to do, but not too much to the extent that people will scoff at this mod. Galerion said that that particular Mages Guild hierarchy setup isn't traditionally followed. However, that's not to say that it is never followed. So perhaps Pelagiad can be the exception where the Mages Guild follows the hierarchy more accurately than most. Is it bad sometimes to be too lore-correct?


I'm confused on what Galerion meant exactly when he said, "The Guild has become nothing more than an intricate morass of political infighting."

Hey, thank you for replying to my questions, SamirA. I don't get a lot of replies at BSF and our actual zetaboard website pretty much just has the same member posting in it... me. So it is great to come to a place like this where the people post regularly and are helpful and most of all, knowledgeable. Pelagiad is an Imperial town and P:C is an Imperial province. So there is tons of information from here that I can learn to help me. I'm going to make a Pelagiad Expanded topic in the TESIII modding section since I don't want to clutter up the Cyrodiil lore section with a million questions.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Scamp » 01 Aug 2011, 22:37

Tes96 wrote:Hey, thank you for replying to my questions, SamirA. I don't get a lot of replies at BSF and our actual zetaboard website pretty much just has the same member posting in it... me. So it is great to come to a place like this where the people post regularly and are helpful and most of all, knowledgeable


I wish I would feel motivated enough to reply to your questions as well.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 02 Aug 2011, 05:54

Scamp wrote:I wish I would feel motivated enough to reply to your questions as well.
Well that makes me sad. :( And you're one of the cyrodiilic lore guru's huh?
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Scamp » 02 Aug 2011, 10:48

Didn't mean it like that... I am just busy making Stirk and then I see this big discussion and I am like, ehh, back to CS.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby Tes96 » 02 Aug 2011, 19:27

Well, I'm still wanting to know what you guys think Galerion meant when he wrote: "The [Mages] Guild has become nothing more than an intricate morass of political infighting."

intricate - having many complexly interrelating parts or elements
morass - an overwhelming or confusing mass or mixture
infighting - prolonged and often bitter dissension or rivalry among members of a group or organization

To me, it sounds like he was implying the mages in the guild do nothing but quarrel with one another about how things should be run in the guild, who should be in charge of what, how certain spells should be categorized, what spells should be taught and which ones should be discouraged, what color of robes they should wear, who should be the master of Incunubula and who should be the master of initiates, etc... kinda reminds me of myself and other members at BSF when we argue about which spells should be in which schools and which spells should be kept or removed.
What do you guys think?


Off topic, there is also another archmagister, Gothren, but he is of House Telvanni and not the mages guild. So in that case, since they are two separate organizations, there can be two archmagisters.
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Re: The Order of the Lamp

Postby SamirA » 02 Aug 2011, 20:37

Certainly, there can be multiple archmagisters if they are of different factions. That is just a title.
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