Colovian Wineries

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in Province: Cyrodiil.
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Saint_Jiub
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Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 04 Sep 2014, 05:03

I was looking over the wine bottle items in the CS, and the names strike me as kind of mediocre, and not really fitting with the new vision we're developing for Cyrodiil and Colovia in particular. I know we're using TR items here, but maybe we... shouldn't?

I think most or all of our wines should reference specific wineries that we'll populate the West Weald and Colovian Highlands with, so I'm opening this thread for ideas for names and logos (the labels are pretty atrocious too, to be honest). If nobody objects, I'd like Tamika and Surilie Brothers to use the label designs from Tamriellic Glassworks, which the author has posted as an open resource, and then we can come up with other designs in a similar vein for the rest.

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 04 Sep 2014, 05:32

I'm ok with updating these items, however, we will not replace the current wines with new names. The current wines are what is imported to Morrowind so we will still want to have them, could even design mics. quests around the export of these wines. I'm all for coming up with better labels for them and creating new wines altogether though.
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Infragris
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Infragris » 04 Sep 2014, 10:12

The problem is that some of the names are very non-descriptive, like "Kvatch Wine" or "Sutch Wine", for example. It looks odd standing next to a bottle of Surilie Brothers. I don't know how extensive TR uses these bottles, but if they haven't yet been mentioned in dialogue and quests too often, I don't see why the names couldn't be changed.

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 05 Sep 2014, 00:26

These bottles have been around for ages. I dont think the nondescript names are a reason for change either. In fact there could be some winery out there bottling all these cheap wines and calling them whatever they want. This could be the box wine of Tamriel. Hell it could be made in someones basement in Anvil for that matter, we can be creative and keep continuity at the same time.
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 05 Sep 2014, 01:36

I'm sorry but the current names are awful. It'd be the same as seeing a bottle called "Paris Wine." There's cheap, and then there's lazy and boring.

If we're not going to update them, then my backup suggestion is to not use them at all within Cyrodiil except for the Surilie Bros and Tamika varieties (although I have my doubts about "Tamika's Cellar" too).

Here's my initial proposal:

Kvatch: Wolfsblood Winery
Sutch: Bull's Breath Winery
Chorrol: Oaken-Barrel Winery
Skingrad: Twin Moons Winery
Anvil: Slugbane Winery
Empire: Red Diamond Winery

And then the various local vineyards that we can figure out once we start developing NPCs for the Gold Coast/Highlands/West Weald (which would just use a generic label/bottle).

Thoughts?

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 05 Sep 2014, 01:45

That isn't the point. The point is continuity. I'm not going to ban the use of the cheap/"lazy" wines based on name. They can be relegated to certain niches as per my above post, but they are used so extensively in TR it would be odd not to find them in Cyrodiil at all. Now, if you want to propose they change the names of their wines I am all for it because you are correct, the names are bad and lazy, but it isn't something we can't work around. If we provide them with updated wine bottles and names I'm sure they would be on board with replacing the ones they have been using, provided there is no mesh change at all.

I'm ok with your proposal, though Slugbane seems more appropriate for a brewery than a wine, seems rather unpleasant for a wine.
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 05 Sep 2014, 04:27

That's fine by me, I have no clout with TR but when all's said and done if they want to incorporate our lore I'd love that. There's going to be a number of changes to the mesh as far as textures are concerned, but I'm not remodeling the bottles at all so they should just fit seamlessly over the old stuff.

On that note, here's my first test for the wine labels, starting with the vanilla wineries: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nwd0rx2ner3u ... s.png?dl=0

Also, do we want to include the beverages from the Battlehorn Castle DLC? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Battl ... stle_Wines

All except Julianos Firebelly and Numbskin Mead work well as Colovian wines I think, and the others can be incorporated into the Colovian liquors if we're so inclined.

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Praedator » 05 Sep 2014, 07:10

I think the names of the wines on the labels are too thin and slender to be able to read in game, imo you shold use a fatter and larger font for them. I do like the logos though well done :)

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Infragris » 05 Sep 2014, 11:49

Alternatively, we could leave the names off the label entirely. The player will read them anyway when hovering the mouse over the bottles, and having only a large icon for each wine would make them more iconic/recognizable from a distance.

Saint_Jiub: I'm not sure if every one of those cities really needs a winery. Colovian wine was the privilege of Skingrad in Oblivion, which was one aspect of that city I rather enjoyed: the stretches of vineyards surrounding the city, the wine presses in every back yard - it gave the place identity. Following TR, we have to add wineries to Kvatch and Sutch, but I would keep it at that - and have them as small, export-oriented operations, maybe in the country, outside of their respective cities. Other cities could still be production centers for mead or beer. Anvil, for example, already had the cider idea floating around - no reason to add an entire winery on top of that.

For Kvatch, I'd prefer Black Hill Winery, but that's personal. Sutch would be a good chance to introduce a Redguard wine, so I'm not sure about Bull's Breath - maybe we'd better keep that name for a Nibenese affair. I think there was a scrap of Redguard writing floating around Lady N's tumblr that would fit on the label.

About the Battlehorn DLC wines: a couple of them (Battlecry, Argonian Bloodwine) I'd discard because they sound rather generic. Julianos Firebelly and Numbskin Mead would work well as Nibenese drinks, I agree: I'd peg the first one as some kind of distilled, rice wine-like drink - something potent, earning its moniker - and the second as a honey drink with some of the Niben's weird psychoactive drugs mixed in - it literally numbs the skin. Frostdew Blanc would be nice for a white wine from the Bruma region.

I've gone through the current TR release and looked at every reference to these wines in the mod. So far, I've only found a handful of dialogue references, all of them exclusively spoken by one NPC, Alasha Kori, the publican of the Dancing Jug in Ranyon-ruhn:
other beverages
They're being imported straight from the Imperial province. Except of Cyrodiilic brandy and Cyrodiilic whiskey, commonly known as flin, the rest are hard to come by and you may not find them anywhere. C'mon, choose one. I have Surilie Brothers vintage, Kvatch Wine, Tamika's Cellar, Sutch Wine, and the rarest of them all, Nibenay Valley Holy Wine. I don't know what's so holy about this last one, but it's definitely not its price!

Kvatch Wine
A nice choice. Makes you feel full of life, but you'll be a bit vulnerable to spells for the duration of the wine's effect. Drink away while you're here, but don't accept it from someone who dislikes you, especially if he's a mage!

Nibenay Valley Holy Wine
It's coming from the Nibenay valley, which surrounds the Imperial City. Truly a wine for emperors, I'd say.

Sutch Wine
Another bottle that has travelled miles and miles to end up in my store! That one is actually from Hammerfell rather than Cyrodiil. It's the favorite choice of the travelers because it makes them feel much stronger, though they get a bit dizzy and can't jump too well. But then, why would they need to?


There's also one quest revolving around a Khajiit slave who accidentally delivered the wrong box of Sutch Wine somewhere: TR_m3_Dar_Mistake - "Mahhjat's Mistake". The wine is only referred to by name a couple of times, and its nature or origin is unimportant:
Help a poor khajiit
Mistress Fari wanted me to send seven bottles of Sutch Wine to the cruel Charna gra-Mohl at the Windbreak Hostel. Mahhjat did not notice that the bottles he put in delivery were spoiled wine! Mahhjat is scared of Charna and her nasty temper. She may even try to kill me! Please, you must help me.

Journal
I met a Khajiit named Mahhjat, who told me that he mixed up an order from Charna gra-Mohl, the owner of the Windbreak Hostel, so that she bought seven bottles of spoiled Sutch Wine. He wants me to go to the Windbreak Hostel and replace the seven spoiled wine with some normal Sutch Wine.

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Praedator » 05 Sep 2014, 12:34

Infragris wrote:Alternatively, we could leave the names off the label entirely. The player will read them anyway when hovering the mouse over the bottles, and having only a large icon for each wine would make them more iconic/recognizable from a distance.


I can totally agree on that :)

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 06 Sep 2014, 00:48

I also agree with leaving the names themselves off, though they could be good on larger images at the wineries themselves on crates and the like perhaps.
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 06 Sep 2014, 03:39

None of those are dealbreakers for us just ignoring the TR wine bottles and using our own, then. We can just have a couple wineries in each area and can claim the provincials are just too dull/savage to tell one from another. Or something. If TR wants to fix their names, since it is just a handful of dialogue references, that'd be easy enough too.

Kvatch:
Black Hills Wine
Wolfsblood Wine (Sorry, I really like this one)
Rufino's Cellar Wine

Skingrad:
Twin Moons Wine
Old Vine Wine
Free Estates Wine
Tamika's West Weald Wine [for continuity with Oblivion]
Surilie Brothers Wine
Plallo's Vineyard Wine

Sutch:
Go Nogro Wine
Tukta-ma’bro Wine
Talan's Heritage Wine

Thoughts?

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 07 Sep 2014, 03:16

OK, in lieu of any other objections, I've got the Skingrad wines completed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k47h4o1cefhgq ... s.png?dl=0

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 07 Sep 2014, 03:31

Looks good.
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Scamp » 07 Sep 2014, 13:25

Excellent for more variety in interiors!
Image

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Praedator » 07 Sep 2014, 17:44

I am more a beer person but I would love to taste all your wines :) Good job!

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 11 Sep 2014, 01:23

Thanks everyone :)

Next up are the Sutch wines. We would need to contact Myzel for permission to use the two designs from the TR artbook.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uv3tenw87z3kt ... s.png?dl=0

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Saint_Jiub » 20 Oct 2014, 01:10

Finished wines: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gk13oojlxhqz5 ... s.zip?dl=0

And screen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ouli2rpkq49w ... e.png?dl=0

EDIT: Icons and plugin still pending, the original esp got lost when I switched computers, though thankfully the files themselves got backed up.

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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby SamirA » 20 Oct 2014, 02:14

these are wonderful
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Mwgek
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Re: Colovian Wineries

Postby Mwgek » 21 Oct 2014, 13:11

Really neat.

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