Cyrodiilic Beverages

Discussion of Elder Scrolls lore and how it will be used in Province: Cyrodiil.
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Saint_Jiub
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Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 26 Dec 2013, 05:46

Beer
A traditional Heartland brew made from yeast-fermented rice malt. The invention of the drink is usually credited to the paddy laborers of the Nibenay Basin, who discovered it, according to one popular tale, entirely by accident after an early spring drought forced them to explore new uses for the ruined crop. In flavour and body, Imperial beers tend to be light and sweet, a beverage more similar to wine than to the dark ales of Colovia. Despite its humble origins, it is today regarded as a symbol of Nibenese refinement and delicate sensibility.

Brandy
Though known outside her borders simply as “Cyrodiilic brandy”, to we native Imperials this famed spirit is divided into three classes of liquor. What is commonly imbibed by the provincials is in fact a pomace brandy local to Skingrad – an inferior beverage suitable only as an export product. Within the province, we tend to prefer Gold Coast calvado, made from the region’s lush orchards, Cheydinhal damassine, or blackberry brandy from the West Weald.

Ale
A derivative of Nibenese rice beer, Colovian ale is made from malted barley, which gives it a fruity and full-bodied flavor counterbalanced by boiling it with dried mandrake root. The latter lends a bitter, earthy taste to the brew, along with mild hallucinogenic properties. Though seemingly out of character for the stark, austere Colovians, mandrake beer has long been associated with the region’s worship of Reman and Shezarr, and used by the pious nobility as a means of approaching and even speaking with the divine.

Wine
The signature beverage of the West Weald and Gold Coast, Colovian wine is made by fermenting the grapes of the region’s abundant vineyards. It is prized by us Cyrodiils for its dark red hues, which we associate with the dragon’s blood of the Emperor, as well as its rich flavour and aroma. The latter tend to only improve with proper aging, and vintages linked to auspicious events in our history – especially the births and coronations of emperors, or key military or diplomatic victories – are especially prized.

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Griff
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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Griff » 26 Dec 2013, 22:06

beer is the meaning of all the kinds of alcohol made from barley,hops etc

Larger,Bitter,Ale,stout are the kinds of alcohol under the name beer. If you went into a pub and asked for a pint of beer the barman/barmaid would be like what? and ether ask you what kind or just give you a pint of larger.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Tarius » 26 Dec 2013, 23:17

Griff wrote:beer is the meaning of all the kinds of alcohol made from barley,hops etc

Larger,Bitter,Ale,stout are the kinds of alcohol under the name beer. If you went into a pub and asked for a pint of beer the barman/barmaid would be like what? and ether ask you what kind or just give you a pint of larger.

Dont you man lager?
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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby SamirA » 26 Dec 2013, 23:59

Lets not forget this is not Earth. Who is to say that the Cyrodiils did not invent a drink they call beer that is made from rice as Jiub suggests? Of course I'm not opposed to coming up with new terms for these things entirely (like Mazte and all that from Morrowind), merely saying that there is no need to define beer on earth to that of something in an entirely fictional world.
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Infragris
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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Infragris » 27 Dec 2013, 00:21

I'd much prefer unique names for beer etc. especially if they are going to be made from different things than their earth counterparts. We have to account for the player perspective, here: people will not only get confused, but also wonder why we didn't give these more obviousnames, or even why a book like this is necessary.

All in all, I am wondering who wrote this. An in-game character could write a guide to Cyrodiilic beverages, possibly contrasting them and their cultural associations to similar drinks in Skyrim of High Rock (where we know these exist), or could speak of the exact processes involved in making ale in a world where magic exists, or write about the competing wine-making families around Skingrad, or something.

I do like the ideas in here: religious connotations, vintages linked to specific political events; that kind of thing. Those can be used in-game, with specific vintages being the object of quests or high-level loot. If anything, such aspects should be magnified.

A Nibenese rice brew would work better as a clear drink, a high-grade sake, maybe flavored with Niben spices, is my personal opinion.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Tarius » 27 Dec 2013, 02:39

Unless we are going to go a bit more indepth regarding naming of the stuff, I dont think it matters whats called what. If more stuff is going to be written, then yes, best to get this out of the way now.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 27 Dec 2013, 03:30

Originally, this was just a quick blurb I wrote for the Province:Cyrodiil Tumblr board, inspired by another post about the Dunmeri beverages. When I posted it here, I switched it to 1st person to see how it might sound as dialogue entries or something. With regards to naming conventions, I stuck to these because it was meant to flesh out Oblivion's beverages and make them gel with Cyrodiil as a lore construct, instead of being generic tavern drinks. Also, Cyrodiilic brandy was already a thing in Morrowind so I felt that it was important to not get too far removed from those naming conventions.

Nibenese beer is based on Tsingtao, a Chinese beer that was originally owned by a German company. After it was privatized and made its way to Chinese ownership, they began using rice alongside barley in their brewing. I liked the interplay of East and West in that, but ended up modifying it to remove barley altogether as rice is the more important grain of the Nibenese east. It's also inspired by sake, which despite being referred to as rice wine, is more similar to beer in its brewing process.

Cyrodiilic brandy was pretty obvious, I liked the idea that the drink most commonly associated with the Empire aside from wine would be a cheap byproduct of the winemaking process, while the Imperials keep the good stuff for themselves. I went with cider brandy for Nibenay since all those apples had to come from somewhere, but we could really go with any fruit brandy. Damassine might actually be a better fit for Nibenay (ooh, and Kirschwasser for Colovia!)

Ditto for wine really, all I really did was try to tie it into what we know of Imperial culture.

As for ale, I knew it had to at least remain similar in concept to Nordic ale since the Colovians are wannabe-Nords, but when I was researching alternatives to hops for brewing (since there are no hop plants in Cyrodiil), I stumbled across an article about henbane beer, which also mentioned mandrake beer. And wouldn't you know it, guess what plant the Colovian Highlands has in abundance? The religious aspect of it a tongue-in-cheek nod to the Shonni-etta and Remanada, since mandrake beer is considered to be an aphrodisiac.

I considered including a blurb about mead as well since that also shows up in Oblivion, but I'd rather chalk that up to a Nordic import in-game, since Skyrim tied mead production pretty tightly to Nordic culture.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Praedator » 05 Aug 2014, 11:26

Do we use/sell Dunmeri drinks in Anvil?

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Worsas » 05 Aug 2014, 11:38

I would try to stick with cyrodillic beverages, whenever possible. I think I could quickly come up with some of these other beverages we are still missing.

Among other things I intend to provide newtscales, dragonscales, silk and mithril with the next update (rice is already in). Please try to be patient til then.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Praedator » 05 Aug 2014, 13:03

If you put in new beverages great, gives me some more options...I am cluttering all but containers now due the ref changes.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 07 Aug 2014, 05:40

Concepts for Colovian drinks. Until these get made, I would just use placeholders using the vanilla bottle meshes. Per some of the above suggestions, the drinks all have more interesting names.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kteplsgkd0s2 ... drinks.JPG

In the meantime, don't forget you have Cyrodiilic Brandy and Flin (the CS ID is Potion_Cyro_Whiskey_01, so apparently it's an Imperial beverage) to use as well.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby EJRS » 07 Aug 2014, 07:50

I like the concept drawings, Jiub, especially the ale and the apple and cherry brandies. Is the apple brandy supposed to be sealed with wax? That is a very nice little touch.

I'm not too big on the names, though. Both kirsch and calvado are way too similar to real world counterparts. Mori is good, though, I think it evokes the proper earthy, lowerclass feel.

If I might make a suggestion on the concepts, wouldn't it add a bit of character and flavour (I'm talking lore-wise, but certainly also to the epicurean souls of Tamriel) if at least one variety of Cyrodiilic wine would be a resinated variety (think retsina)?
My feeling is that within the fantasy genre, going on and on about fruity, rich red wines is done to death and beyond. A resinated wine would move it away from this cliché and more into the realm of TES3-exotic. Another idea would be to have one variety use even more "exotic" ingredients. Scandinavian castoreum-schnapps, anyone?

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Worsas » 07 Aug 2014, 09:08

Good timing! I only finished the additional ingredients yesterday and wanted to continue with the beverages next.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 08 Aug 2014, 05:20

Continuing to play with names:

Beer-> Mori
Ale-> Akul
Cherry Brandy-> Kurst
Apple Brandy-> Cazenave

Pulling from Italian, French, and Russian influences, and aiming for a vaguely Slavic sound overall. I want to do at least one more stiff drink for the Colovian set, maybe something based on gin/jenever for the northern highlands. Wine is going to come a bit later, I like where your brain's at though EJ :)

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Praedator » 08 Aug 2014, 08:22

Rakiya (existing Balkan/Middle East drink), its is basically Ouzo/Raki Mastika without Anais, made of any fruit.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby EJRS » 08 Aug 2014, 11:08

Saint_Jiub wrote:Cherry Brandy-> Kurst
Apple Brandy-> Cazenave


Both of these I really like. Doesn't sound made up, but doesn't sound similar to any real world beverage (that I'm aware of, at least). Both sound appetizing, as well: I could easily go for a glass of chilled cazenave on a warm afternoon, and just as easily for a room-temperature one of kurst next to the fireplace on a rainy dito.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Worsas » 08 Aug 2014, 11:35

'Mori' feels the most fitting to me, personally, as it somehow works well with 'Flin'.

If we steer too much into the exotic we maybe miss a certain more classical, familiar streak we should maintain somehow, I think. There doesn't speak anything against just using 'brandy', for example, as it already is the name for the general cyrodillic brandy. That's just my two cents.

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby SamirA » 08 Aug 2014, 23:28

Mori for sure, Kurst isn't bad either. I also agree with Worsas that everything doesn't need a special name, but these two could certainly be used.
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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby Saint_Jiub » 09 Aug 2014, 01:49

We'll certainly have wine and brandy in there as descriptors as well as beer, ale, whiskey, and anything else we need, but the specific drinks can have more unique names I think. Imperial language isn't merely based on English, as we see with proper nouns like Skingrad and Kvatch. *shrug* others can feel free to disagree but I personally think these are cooler than the alternatives.

Regarding the Mori flask, how about a paint job? Something like this (https://www.flickr.com/photos/medmss/76 ... 881181@N20) painted onto the clay wouldn't look out of place and would tie it to Imperial culture a bit more, but also wouldn't be overly fancy as I feel that a wax seal or label would be.

One more try on the ale name because I really want to get this right: since it's flavored with mandrake root, how about Mandragorov?

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Re: Cyrodiilic Beverages

Postby SamirA » 09 Aug 2014, 02:03

Sounds like a Russian firearm honestly. Akul is better as a name.
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