Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

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Worsas
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Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Worsas » 14 Jul 2014, 10:15

I would like us to collect varying influences in the Imperial culture that should affect architecture, garment and other objects of use.

Moreover, should the various Nedic tribes the Imperials descend from still result in locally different appearance of people? Or should we stick with Nibenese, Akaviri-Descendants and Colovians as three different groups that are visually consistent within themselves? As there are quite a few headpacks that could be modified for this purpose, I imagine that locally different faces are a relatively doable task, but neverthelss still an additional workload.

I could see us giving at least the mostsouthern kothringi-influenced Nibenese a local flavour. Maybe some Colovians of the Gold Coast could have a darker skin color. Some northern Colovians could feature a strikingly nordic appearance. All in all I envision Cyrodiil as a culturally very diverse and colorful place where you will encounter all kind of people in all places. Likewise you should encounter some Nibenese people in the west and Colovians in the East.

I would also like to discuss Nordic, Akaviri, Nibenese, Ayleid and other influences. I know they have been discussed in various places, but maybe we could codify them for us. Moreover, what are central elements/motifs in Imperial building and art (arcs are one of them) ?

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Infragris
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Infragris » 14 Jul 2014, 12:09

Before we get too far in this, I think it's worth reiterating that the Imperials should give the impression of being a united people, with many regional differences, but a solid foundation of shared cultural beliefs. That is how they manage to rule an Empire that spans the known world, after all. Some differences between groups are perhaps best left alluded to, like the Velothi underclass in Morrowind.
That being said, these are some possible options:
  • Colo-Nordic: pseudo-Nordic upperclass, descendants of Nordic mercenaries that came to aid the rebellion against the Ayleid. Nordic chieftains and warriors were given large stretches of the western frontier in reward. Even today, the rulers and nobility of Colovia are mostly Nordic in heritage (not in race), while the common people are more likely to be Nedic or have but a little bit of Nordic blood. The situation is similar to Saxons and Britons in medieval England. Colo-Nords hold to some of their old tradition, "Nordic Virtues", and the worship of Shor - as a matter of fact, they sometimes tend to be more "Nordic" than the average Nord.
  • Colo-Nedic: descendants of a large group of "tribeless" Nedes who, after the Rebellion, moved west. Intermarried with Nordic footsoldiers and today make up the majority of Colovian commoners.
  • Pre-Colovian peoples: Orcish settlements and "Nedic" people who were culturally distinct from the Nibenese tribes, and lived in an uncomfortable peace with the Ayleid. Pushed out into the northern deserts by the Nords, where they were subsequently exterminated by the Redguard invasion. Still, traces of Pre-Colovian or even Orcish blood can still be found in the Colovian population, where they are regarded as marks of shame.
  • Colo-Redguard: mix of Colovian and Redguard customs, mostly in Sutch. After initial hostilities, the Cyrodiils became friendly with the Redguard fast, and took many customs from them - such as the tradition of Arena fighting.
  • Heartland Nibenese: the mainstream of Niben culture, descended from the various Niben tribes. The Niben is an urban, cosmopolitan region, so I would say most of the tribes have merged completely, save perhaps for locally powerful clans, like in the Imperial City. In practical terms, the role of tribal affiliation would be filled by religion, with the Totem-societies. Heartland Niben includes the Lake Rumare and the banks of the river on either side.
  • Blackwood Nibenese: rural natives of the vast eastern marshes and wilderness. A mixed bag, the remnant of older tribes who, like the Kothringi, never really identified with the Imperial project, and various groups who were pushed out of Niben civilization, such as cults who started getting too weird even for Niben standards. Insular people, who live in isolated villages in the swamp and avoid contact with the outside world.
  • Akaviri Heritage: mostly coincides with the status of Battlemage or Niben aristocracy. These noble families have a Tsaeci ancestor somewhere, dating from the era of Reman and the Potentates. Niben aristocrats take special pride in this, and often affect certain "Akaviri' customs, like Tsaeci theater, philosophy or architecture. Tsaeci blood usually manifests as a complete lack of body hair for both sexes. Other than that, the only physical mark is a typical criss-cross tattoo pattern on the cheeks, meant to imitate scales. Very conservative, and opposed to the younger aristocracy of merit that has arisen under the Septims.
  • Ayleid Heritage: for most Imperials, having an Ayleid ancestor is merely hypothetical, as the blood has been so diluted that it leads to no notable traits save perhaps a certain aptitude for magic. The Imperial attitude to the Ayleid is complex: despite the years of slavery and rebellion, early Imperial culture is very much indebted to the Ayleid civilization, and people sometims look back on the great Ayleid civilizaiton with reverence and affection. Some peole with Ayleid blood dabble in Ayleid Revivalism, claiming that stories about torture and slavery were fabricated by the Empire, that the slaves had it good under the Ayleid, and that the greatness of Ayleid civilization should be renewed.

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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Worsas » 15 Jul 2014, 19:57

Now if we all agree that the nibenese do not look fundamentally different from other imperials, we could have faces and hairs of the following categories:

1. Generic imperial faces and haircuts along the lines of what you have in the vanilla game. No specific assignment to any ethnicity.
2. Bearded and blue-eyed Imperial faces for the northern areas and the pseudo-nordic upper class. But otherwise of imperial skin color.
3. Black hair and faces with negroid traits, but only insignificantly darker than other imperial faces. These would be cool for Stirk and the gold coast.
4. General Nibenese faces.I do not know how much they are supposed to have exotic traits beyond facial tatooes. Regarding haircuts, I cannot really say much, either.
5. Akaviri Nibenese upper class faces. Maybe they need their own bodies aswell? Facial tatooes as pointed out above and lack of eyebrows. no hair.
6. Blackwood Nibenese faces. No need to worry about these yet.

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Infragris
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Infragris » 15 Jul 2014, 20:17

Giving Tsaeci-Nibenese their own bodies is a waste of time and resources. We're unlikely to have a lot of them, and the ones we do have will probably be fully dressed. The difference between them and a "normal" Nibenese is supposed to be slight, as the Akaviri blood is very diluted.

2. and 3. could be dealt with fairly easy by assigning Nords and Redguard hair options to Imperials. Some of these haircuts would have to be edited, as they include the ears of the other race, and we will have to make a decision on which hair replacer we want to follow (personally, I vote for Westly's).

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Saint_Jiub » 20 Jul 2014, 03:13

I'm for Westly as well mixed with a few other hair packs (as long as we avoid the garish ones like Ren's).

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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Saint_Jiub » 20 Aug 2014, 18:38

Because I'm nothing if I don't have as many irons in the fire as possible at any given time, decided to take a crack at the general Nibenese heads. Just one for now, loosely based on one of the heads already in pc_data.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mg6c1gnc4mu10 ... adtest.png

I'll be uploading the PSDs once completed so we can add tattoos once the final designs get pinned down, for now I want to get the basic anatomy so we can start using them for NPC-ing and update the textures whenever we need to.

Regarding hair, I was digging through my pictures and found this gem from about a year ago (doesn't look like it ever got uploaded): https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wj6shvyppckn ... sehair.JPG

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Saint_Jiub » 20 Aug 2014, 20:18

Update on the heads: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0c9xgcnidhm7zmy/nibheads.png

These other three are renovated versions of the Nibenese heads that are currently in data. There's one more to go and one duplicate that'll get replaced by a totally new version, for a total of 6, then I'll start on the females as well. Eventually we'll get up to double digits for heads for both genders, but I'm not worried about the Akaviri or Blackwood heads yet.

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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Worsas » 21 Aug 2014, 17:13

I like them.

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SamirA
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby SamirA » 22 Aug 2014, 00:45

I agree.
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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Saint_Jiub » 25 Aug 2014, 03:46

Finished. Just gotta put 'em in the CS and they'll be ready to go.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7u7owicu5y69 ... l.png?dl=0

As mentioned, I've saved each as a PSD (basically single layer, it's mainly to avoid compression) so we can add whatever tattoos we want once the looks for those get finalized.

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Praedator
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Praedator » 25 Aug 2014, 08:58

yay for progress, thanks a lot St. Jiub :)

Worsas
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Worsas » 25 Aug 2014, 10:39

Nice. I'll look if I get the other imperial heads updated soon. Then we won't need to do with less heads.

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SamirA
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby SamirA » 26 Aug 2014, 01:11

I love this place when it is humming along like this. Great looking stuff Jiub.
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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Saint_Jiub » 22 Oct 2014, 17:21

Okay... so possibly some bad news here. It's looking like I backed up the DDS versions of the male heads, but not the PSDs. Still sorting through the files I brought over, but it's kinda looking like I'll either need to redo them or we'd have to deal with an extra layer of compression artifacts when we add tattoos (or else use them as is as plain faces and add tattoo'd varieties later). Sorry y'all.

Female heads are safe, though: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x8l2a24vcuzc ... F.zip?dl=0

No need for a plugin, these models/textures should just replace the originals.

Worsas
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Re: Ethnicities - Cultural Diversity

Postby Worsas » 22 Oct 2014, 20:06

The female faces are in my local data files now. When the male versions are up, I will make all of these availible for the general imperial race in PC_Data.


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