Our general framework

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Worsas
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Our general framework

Postby Worsas » 12 Jan 2014, 19:25

PC-Data will eventually need a number of general things to be fully functional. Most of these things do not need additional modelwork before they can be created. But apparently they can rely on the result of our discussion on factions:

Text-related
- Cyrodiil-versions of the vanilla factions
- Cyrodiil-versions of the vanilla classes and the respective 'my trade'-dialogue entries.
- Dialogue entries for topics and greetings regarding nerevarine, sotha sil, almalexia, dark brotherhood attacks, solstheim and other vanilla-topcis that are not limited to area/person/faction.
- Cyrodiil-adapted Faction Books for fighters guild, mages guild, thieves guild, legion and imperial cult

Magic-related
- General Enchanted gear
- Spellscrolls
- Spells

Container related
- a broad range of levelled items which could stay empty until all needed objects have been modelled
- containers filled with levelled items
- expclicit empty pc-containers for convenience, so you do not always have to scroll up to the vanilla containers.

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Saint_Jiub
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Saint_Jiub » 12 Jan 2014, 19:53

I'll take a look at the class/misc dialogue - that shouldn't change too much, if at all, based on the results of our faction discussions.

Worsas
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Worsas » 12 Jan 2014, 20:25

I am also curently considering a certain approach regarding further modelwork. There are the two main areas: Exteriors and Interiors/Npcs.

The exterior-section needs plants, rocks, ground textures, house-sets that often change with the region or cultural/political area. But general ruins, imperial fort ruins and ayleid ruins are likely to be the same throughout the province.

The interior section needs changing interior-shells but other than that the set of objects that are used to clutter the place remains the same for a big part. Faces, clothing and weaponry can be the same throughout the province for a big part (of course the nibenay bay should still be different from the colovian highlands regarding everyday clothing)

I wonder if we shouldn't mostly focus on universal or semi-universal sets of objects that are a lasting base for future work on the province.

Most of the objects that would be universal throughout the province are found in the interior/npc-section. The interior modders should get a few more toys to play with, so they enjoy their claims more and we get onwards in this area. And we need full releases with cluttered interiors and equipt npcs to attract people.

While the original game provides a certain range of general objects, we should extend on such simple things as tables, chairs and other clutter to show the diversity of a province that is surrounded by 8 others provinces to which it holds more or less intensive trade relations.

For general cluttering:
- varying cloth pieces many of which could be of nibenay origin.
- hanging clothes that can have a function similar to the screens dunmer use in mw
- copper, clay, glass, metal and wood tableware (i assume that the vanilla silver can stay the same)
- Various furniture, such as small wineracks, beds, padded chairs or benches.
- More Tapestry and Rugs
- Curtains?
- Any produces made from animals and plants that inhabit the province. At first the creature should be in place, though.

For npcing:
-colovian garment (I intent to start on this sometime soon based on what gro-dahl came up with)

Ayleid Ruins:
- furniture, armors and misc objects

Creatures:
-General livestock based on the farm animals I recently made for the skyrim-project

Imperial fort ruins:
- the exterior set at first

There are many more things that could be done. Though this is what jumps to my mind so far. Obviously this much modelling work only pays off if we actually get further than stirk with our effort. We have been stuck at Stirk for two years already and we should be sure we are able to enhance progress in future in some form or the other.

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TerrifyingDaedricFoe
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Re: Our general framework

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 13 Jan 2014, 12:02

PC Data already contains Cyrodiil factions & classes, as well as the new Colovian & Nibenese races.

I was planning on not having any dialogue at all in Data and instead having it all in the main Cyrodiil.ESM. I've also copied all the generic greetings from Greeting 8 & 9 to Greeting 7 filtered so only cyrodiil NPCs have them to avoid the omg ur the nerevarine greetings.

Actually, I think I'll just upload my latest file so you can a quick looksy.
SamirA wrote:
Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.
Haha, bethstapo.

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Infragris
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Infragris » 13 Jan 2014, 12:34

Worsas wrote:- Dialogue entries for topics and greetings regarding nerevarine, sotha sil, almalexia, dark brotherhood attacks, solstheim and other vanilla-topcis that are not limited to area/person/faction.

Most likely, the common folk have no idea who the Nerevarine is or what he did. Savants, scholars, and people in the east may have heard of him/you after Dagoth Ur is defeated, but they don't know the gravity of the situation: to them, Dagoth Ur was just some anti-Imperial rebel living under a volcano, the likes of which can be found in any province.

I had an idea regarding the Tribunal gods from an Imperial perspective, that I wanted to write a small text on one of these days. Basically, your average Imperial is completely ignorant of the Dunmer Temple, and many believe that the Dunmer worship a god-king called "Ephen" (mentioned in the Real Barenziah and King Edward books), who combines attributes of ALMSIVI and the prophet Veloth. A Nordic misinterpretation.

Worsas wrote:Magic-related
- General Enchanted gear
- Spellscrolls
- Spells

How about a kind of "Welkynd Intervention" system? Basically a fast-travel system based on Ayleid Wells, using spellscrolls or pendants found in Ayleid ruins. Compared to Vvardenfell we are sorely lacking in fast-travel options. We can't add more spell effects, but we could set up something like the propylon system.

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TerrifyingDaedricFoe
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Re: Our general framework

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 13 Jan 2014, 20:37

Infragris wrote:Most likely, the common folk have no idea who the Nerevarine is or what he did. Savants, scholars, and people in the east may have heard of him/you after Dagoth Ur is defeated, but they don't know the gravity of the situation: to them, Dagoth Ur was just some anti-Imperial rebel living under a volcano, the likes of which can be found in any province.

I agree, the problem is that the way Bethesda set up some vanilla topics means that everyone gets them so province mods need to put more logical dialogue responses in front of the Vvardenfell-specific ones. I'm looking into ways to minimise the inappropriateness.
SamirA wrote:
Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.
Haha, bethstapo.

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Scamp
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Scamp » 14 Jan 2014, 13:53

Can't you give these topics a couple more conditions to make sure they don't show up on our NPCs? Obviously I am not an expert on dialog, however I remember doing a bit a loooong while ago. For instance, we could have a non-player faction that common folk would be in. Topics such as the ones relating to the Nerevarine would not show up for anyone in this faction.
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Worsas
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Worsas » 14 Jan 2014, 15:57

As far as I'm aware you cannot avoid showing up the topic in the list, unless you edit the vanilla dialogue.

Regarding Spells, Spellscrolls and the like, I thought about reusing the stock spell effects the game offers but under new spells with non-dunmeri names. 'Ondusis Unhinging' has got a dunmeri name, for example. It does not mean, we have to avoid it but that it is a spell more likely used in Morrowind.

At SHOTN we have made up a bunch of nord-related spells, spellscrolls and enchanted weapons. We could do the same here with the nibenese culture as background.

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TerrifyingDaedricFoe
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Re: Our general framework

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 14 Jan 2014, 16:19

It would be simple to do, but would require editing vanilla dialogue. If we're OK with that then I can go ahead and do it.
SamirA wrote:
Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.
Haha, bethstapo.

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Scamp
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Scamp » 15 Jan 2014, 14:44

Wouldn't you edit vanilla dialog anyway if you added responses to vanilla topics such as "Nerevarine"? Or is that not considered "editing"?
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Infragris
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Re: Our general framework

Postby Infragris » 15 Jan 2014, 15:32

@Scamp: it's the difference between adding new responses to a topic, and editing pre-existing responses. Several mods could add responses and not conflict (much), but if two mods edit the same response, there's no proper way to solve that conflict. This could conflict with other popular mods like the LGNPC series.

Simply adding a one-off response filtered for our regions is much easier. That's pretty much how Bethesda did it in Bloodmoon: you can annoy the inhabitants of Solstheim by asking them about the Nerevarine and Almalexia, and they have no idea what you're on about.


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