[Faction]The Legion

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SamirA
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[Faction]The Legion

Postby SamirA » 11 Jan 2014, 17:55

This is where we will continue our discussion on the Legion in Cyrodiil. We need to decide on the structure and size of the legion as well as how it will be portrayed. Once we have decided on these things we need to discuss the story of the legion that the player will be involved in.
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Re: The Legion

Postby Infragris » 12 Jan 2014, 01:10

Reposting here because all the lore we got:
  • The Eight Legion was lost in the retreat from the Imperial City during the Great War, defending the walls.
  • The Imperial Battlemages are known as the "Shadow Legion", no mention if they also carried a number.
  • The Tenth Legion was destroyed during Uriel V's invasion of Ionith, but apparently reformed and was active in Hammerfell during the Great War (after our timeframe).
  • The Third Legion is known as "The Faithful" for their actions during the Moth Rebellion in Tiber's early reign. They fought in almost every part of Tamriel during the war, and were part of a disgraceful action in Senchal. After a heavy defeat, they were reformed as the "Ruby Legion".

I'm still defending my idea of reforming the Tenth at the end of the legion questline. A long and arduous process, gathering support and resources, have the player choose the patron spirit and symbols of his legion himself, and end up as the "head of a legion": a pretty nice reward that doesn't consist of overpowered weapons or something like that.

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Re: The Legion

Postby SamirA » 12 Jan 2014, 01:13

I like it. Seems like a cool story and an interesting type of reward.
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MoonAndStar
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Re: The Legion

Postby MoonAndStar » 12 Jan 2014, 13:08

The main plot of the legion could revolve around an organized threat like a rebellion of a certain ethnic group like the very Renrijra Krin (sp?), or maybe the Kali Mes, or whatever group in the Sutch area. Reforming the 10th legion and establishing its base near Sutch to watch over the area after the rebellion is suppressed would tie into why the 10th legion would later fight in Hammerfell during the Great War, especially considering that Sutch will at one time in the future be incorporated into Hammerfell.

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Re: The Legion

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 12 Jan 2014, 13:16

I like the endgame plan for this faction, but I'm not sure there's that many quests that could be given lower down in the faction. I think of the Legions in Cyrodiil as being like the army whereas the City Guards + wilderness patrol people (possibly called the Imperial Watch, see this thread) are like the police.

Now, the police do lots of exciting things day-to-day like catching crims and locking them up, whereas the army just trains in their barracks (I'm generalising, please don't take offence). As a joinable faction you want to be doing exciting things. I suppose you could become the Legion equivalent of the Military Police, breaking up fights, sorting out disputes, hunting down deserters etc but I'm not sure how you would progress from being a green soldier to joining the MP.

Actually, just had a thought.

What if you join the Legion and begin basic training. You have to run through the wilderness from one place to another in less than x hours, fight against other trainees and existing Legionnaires, that sort of thing. However, towards the end of training you uncover evidence of some sort of crime or plot or something. If you're able to solve it yourself then you get taken on as a trainee MP.

Basically I'm trying to think of reasons why the Legion would send you off on quests on your own, because if you had to lead a squad around the player would quickly kill themselves from frustration.
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Re: The Legion

Postby SamirA » 12 Jan 2014, 16:04

I kind of like the idea that each region of Cyrodiil has its own legion which has an established fort somewhere in the region. From here they patrol the wilderness and the small towns of their region with low level recruits being stationed as mere watchmen. The large cities manage their own elite guards who wear their own special legion based armor. The exception being Stirk which is not a county seat but due to being isolated needs its own guard force rather than relying on the legion.

If we break it down like this then the player simply joins the legion and works his way up by going on patrols and things of that nature. Investigating things in whatever town we station him at for his turn at guard duty.
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Re: The Legion

Postby Infragris » 12 Jan 2014, 17:17

I think an interesting direction would be to focus on internal problems in whatever fortress the player is assigned to: corruption, incompetence, etc. emphasize the life and personalities within the organisation, instead of reacting to external threats. The player could get assigned to increasingly more important fortresses during certain stages of the Legion questline, and making a name by dealing with local (and internal) problems. For example, first you get assigned to some half-empty watchtower on the edge of Argonia, then to a larger fort in Colovia, then to another somewhere else, etc. until you end up in the Imperial City.

I was thinking it might be interesting to offer the option of joining the Battlemages for magic-oriented players, as a kind of sidebranch for the legion.

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Re: The Legion

Postby Tarius » 13 Jan 2014, 02:26

Perhaps we should do something different with the legion. There is always the standard go up the ranks, do the standard ole missions and what not.
Something like the legion has always seemed far too rigid for a game like this and yet it isnt and that makes it seem not quite right.
The legion would need to follow rules and regulations, have the people always show up on time, do basic patrols and etc etc etc. Instead, I suggest we do something different. Make the legion quests almost thief like. Not completely or anything of course, but where the thieves guild is an outlet for thieves and the fighters guild is an outlet for fighters, I think we should combine these traits for the legion. This would probably be a welcome suprise for many people and would be something not really seen.
I am sure by now you are wonderng what exactly I mean by this. Well, due to these regulations, the legion obviously cant just go tearing around to get things done. Yes, they hire out contracts to people and I am sure they have their own internal investigators, but what I am suggesting is a quest line that not only sees you do the standard legion stuff, but has you sneaking around to gather evidence, items, what have you.
Obviously, there was the undercover mission in Oblivion with the fighters guild, and looking into what happened with the guards in Tribunal, but those arnt completely what I am thinking of. Internal politics is an interesting business and I am sure there would be loads to do in a quest line involving them.(no, the bloodmoon quest line for the merchants isnt exactly the same either)(having the player be an outlaw at one point might be an interesting twist?)
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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Worsas » 26 Mar 2014, 11:33

I just saw that there were some ideas put in place regarding the legions that take place in Skyrim at the SHOTN-Forum:

http://shotn.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f ... 31c62901aa

Perhaps we should look about synchronizing those ideas to make the mods work together the best-possible way. The same could be done with regards to TR and the legion in MW, since they are currently discussing this issue over there.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Infragris » 22 May 2014, 13:05

Never did come to a conclusion here, did we? Let's summarize.

In terms of legion organization, we have several options coming from the General notes on government topic:
  • No changes: this would keep the Legion a monolithic affair, similar to how it was depicted in vanilla Morrowind.
  • Three or four legions: this would have different legions in the larger regions like Colovia, southern Nibenay, the northeast, and the Heartland.
  • Ten legions: this would have a legion for each of the game's regions.
  • ...


Personally, I prefer the three or four legion solution. The vanilla Morrowind setup is easier, but loses a lot of lore and character (necessary, because the Legion is a quintessentially Imperial faction), while the ten legion-solution doesn't make a lot of sense to me: regions are not political divisions, but indicative of climate and geology, and very unequal in size or strategic importance (look at the Nibenay Valley, for example). And weren't we planning to add new regions to the map, anyway? It would also be very difficult for quests and visual design to juggle what are essentially ten different sub-factions, and explain why the player can jump between them at will. Lastly, the difference with Morrowind, where (from our perspective) one single legion blob rules the whole map, would be too obvious.

To illustrate my point, I've made up a mock-proposal for a three or four legion setup, spoilered below:
Spoiler: show
Auxiliary and double-digit Legions
These form the bulk of the Imperial Legion's presence in the provinces. Legions above number ten rarely have any individual history or identity, and are created and abolished by the Emperor depending on the situation. The Legion presence in Morrowind is composed of several such legions, working closely together: the legion number of a soldier is simply administrative. Provincial legions mostly recruit from the locals, though their officers are trained in Colovia. The "true" legions consider these little better than mercenaries without proper training or discipline, which is why the player has to start at the bottom rank after coming over from Morrowind. City Guards are also counted among these by the true legions. Many secondary sites in Cyrodiil, mostly in the northeast, are occupied by auxiliaries.

The First Legion
Symbol: a stag's head (reference to their Falkreath origin and victory over the Reachmen)
Originated from the Falkreath army that Cuhlecain first brought together, and formed the core of the united Colovian forces during the Tiber Wars. After the war, the legion gets honorary first status and becomes home defense for Colovia. By far the largest legion, mostly occupied with periodic recruitment drives in Colovia. The First habitually sends out trained lower officers to other legions around Tamriel, explaining the prevalence of Colovian Imperials as Legion officers. The First legion has not seen true combat for a long time, and has grown soft as a result.

This is where the player starts out, as a soldier recruited by the First. Early quests are routine patrols, training, that kind of thing.

The (Seventh?) Legion
Symbol: the Snake
This legion traditionally defends the southern Niben and mouth of Topal Bay, and the highways through Blackwood, prison transports towards Argonia. They have a high opinion of themselves for defending the Niben, the most immediate invasion route towards the Imperial City. Based in a large fortress somewhere close to Bravil. The Seventh has seen a lot of action lately due to the acquisition of the Trans-Niben: Renjiira Krin insurgents, hostile Argonian tribes, rebellion in west-Leyawiin. As such, they are more battle-hardened than the other Cyrodiil legions, and have younger officers (and an unusually high chance for promotion). There are rumors that the top brass have gotten involved in slave trading and skooma transports across the Niben.

After training in the First, the player is sent over to the Seventh as a lower officer. Here, he distinguishes himself in combat/gets involved in a corruption investigation.

The Third Legion (The Ruby Legion)
Symbol: the Ruby of Emperors. Also, red coats.
The legion of honor, defending the Imperial City and the surrounding circle of defenses in the Heartland. The palace guard and personal guard of the Emperor are also part of these. The Third distinguished itself during the Moth Rebellion, and was offered the special honor of guarding the Imperial City. Mostly a ceremonial legion, and much smaller than the other ones. Their armor is more elaborate and expensive than that of counrty legions. Rather arrogant, but very well-trained. Ever since the Interregnum, the Emperor has grown distrustful of the Ruby Legion, preferring to rely on his Blades.

After the Seventh, the player is promoted to the Third as reward for valor in combat/to buy his silence after exposing corruption among the Seventh leadership. Quests here could involve high-level political things, or peacekeeping within the Imperial City.

Other Legions
Most other legions are permanently based in other corners of the Empire (the Empire being hundreds of years old, there's no reason why each and every legion has to be based in the old homeland). A couple of legions off on temporary assignments may have left a token force in their homebase, but these can be represented by auxiliary (vanilla) forces.

Bastion Island
The headquarters of the Legion, based on one of the islands of the Imperial City. An enormous fortress comprising the entire island, includes the Imperial Prison, barracks, archives, map room, etc. All the top generals are here. Also the home base of the Empire's militaristic nobility: the knights of the Garland, the knights of the Imperial Dragon, etc. Defended mostly by the Ruby Legion.

This is the endgame for the player, where he becomes a commander/general/whatever, and is offered the chance to reform the Tenth Legion

The Shadow legion
Rather dramatic name for the Imperial Battlemages, a subdivision of the Legion. Only legionnaries and certified members of old Nibenese aristocracy have the right to train in the College of Battlemages. After the destruction of the original Battlespire, the College of Battlemages is based in a decommissioned Battlespire on Lake Rumare, close to Bastion Island.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby MoonAndStar » 22 May 2014, 16:10

Seconded. Good plans. The auxiliary legions thing is also supported by vanilla: when you go to join the legion at Gnisis, you are told that general Darius presides over the Deathshead Legion, and most of the troops guarding Gnisis are orcs, and at least one Dunmer, all of them in the lower quality legionary armour.

Maybe claims could be put up to retexture shields and skirts, if we can agree on colour-coding and legion symbols.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby SamirA » 22 May 2014, 17:20

I'm good with this approach. Nice to finally nail down one factions basic outline.
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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Infragris » 23 May 2014, 14:22

MoonAndStar wrote:Maybe claims could be put up to retexture shields and skirts, if we can agree on colour-coding and legion symbols.


The Navy Insignia linked here are a good guideline as to the design and level of detail for legion insignia, as well as the different kinds of flags and object that require them (As an aside, the Navy would probably be another sub-faction, but they are a bit outside the scope of the project. They could feature as window-dressing on the southern shore and Bastion Isle).

Apart from flags, legion armor is probably the most significant visual indicator. As MoonAndStar said, affiliation can easily be shown with skirts, shields, and maybe an edited helmet or two. A kind of colored band on the right arm (pauldron or gauntlet item) would be nice, too, as a way to carry the affiliation across different equipment types.

The First Legion would be our priority, being in Colovia. They should be pretty close to vanilla, I think, a kind of baseline "normal" legion from which the others can deviate. A deer or antlered skull would be an appropriate symbol, though something like a boar or a bear might be more Colovian-like. Yellow-brown might suit them (echoing the arid Colovian coast and highlands), or maybe a field-green color-scheme.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby MoonAndStar » 23 May 2014, 17:31

Sounds good. Also, the vanilla steel Imperial armour has depictions of horses and a floral motif.



Maybe that could be changed to a boar(s), and then the shield has the deer, or vice-versa.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Ald-Ma' Cyrod » 26 Jun 2014, 20:19

Is anything being planned for the Talos Cult? Seems a good opportunity to show a less united legion and give it some actual character(s) rather than parroting "Obey the Law!" at every turn. Not even grimdark corruption in the sense of grasping generals (though there should be a fair share of that, too) but more like not everyone is behind Uriel VII and his weirdo sons.
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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby gro-dhal » 06 Jul 2014, 00:12

You have an opportunity to fix the Red Templars, who were so incoherently applied in Morrowind. Maybe even give them a Red Temple.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Infragris » 08 Jul 2014, 20:17

Legion religion and the way all the templars and knightly orders fit in are very much on my mind. There may be a way to have them do double duty, like having the Templars fulfill the role of a knightly order for the Imperial Cult's Talos branch.

EDIT:

Alright, since the claim for legion armor is up, it's probably time to specify some things. A reminder: here's an overview of Imperial Legion armor. At this point, I we can ignore all armor types and items save these:
  • Imperial Steel Cuirass: needs a new insignia and maybe a color trim.
  • Imperial Shield: needs a new insignia and color. Maybe also some mesh work to add a sculpted head or something.
  • Imperial Skirt: change of color, maybe add a bit of a fringe to it, make it longer or shorter depending on use.
In time, we may think about changing other elements of the armor, like helmets and pauldrons, but for our immediate needs this will be sufficient.

The First Legion: native to Colovia, and our current priority. These are relatively close to vanilla in their fashion sense.
  • Cuirass: replace the horses on the vanilla cuirass with two jumping stags. Maybe change the belt to white fur or skin (goat?), but keep the yellow belt, as this is the color of this Legion.
  • Shield: antlered stag's head, perhaps with a vague Nordic feel to it, like the banner of Falkreath in Skyrim (though not that extreme). Also a yellow-brown base color or trim.
  • Skirt: change color to yellow-brown. Should not need anything else.

The Seventh Legion: currently stationed in Nibenay, though they have also served in Black Marsh. It'll be a long time before we need these guys, so this is no priority.
  • Cuirass: replace the horses with two uncoiling snakes. Perhaps do something with chainmail piece on the front: replace it with metal scales.
  • Shield: a big coiled snake. I'm not sure what their color should be: a dark green, perhaps, or the blue of the Niben.
  • Skirt: changed for watery, moist environments: a split in the front and back for increased mobility, perhaps a fringe of small metal ornaments.

The Third of the Ruby Legion: the most prestigious Legion, which should be reflected in their armor. They guard the Imperial City and the shores of the lake Rumare.
  • Cuirass: unlike the black of the others: this one is dyed a deep red, with iron wreaths and decoration. A kind of sleeveless tabard is thrown over the front, on which the Legion's crest is shown: a horned red diamond
  • Shield: also red and decorated with a protruding bull's head, with a large metal ring through the nose (maybe also jutting out horns). Maybe make the shield a little taller, more imposing
  • Skirt: much longer and elaborate than the other, almost reaching to the floor. Red, of course, with lots of hanging silk folds.
  • Helmet: for this set I would suggest a special, closed helmet, sort of like this thing.
  • Other pieces: boots, pauldrons, gauntlets etc. with all visible cloth colored red, trims of red silk, etc. These guys are supposed to be fancy.

Here's a story about regional variation in Legion armor, inspirational maybe.

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby roerich » 31 Aug 2014, 15:07

I don't know if this is useful, but I'll drop it here anyway: http://mway1.tumblr.com/post/9625938846 ... ack-of-the

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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby SamirA » 31 Aug 2014, 17:13

Hmm, could be useful to add some more distinction to the navy with a few of those perhaps.
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Re: [Faction]The Legion

Postby Infragris » 17 Nov 2014, 00:25

Lets talk about Legion forts.

Oblivion features about fifty forts, all ruined and abandoned. P:C will feature many more, as we have a larger area to cover - though we have a couple of different "types" of fort as opposed to Oblivion's one. Active Legion forts are but one of these: they serve as garrisons and home bases for scouts, patrols and guards. Only a fraction of Legion power is based in these forts: many Legions are permanently assigned to other provinces, and those that have their home in Cyrodiil regularly send large detachments across the borders. Legion forts represent the might of the Emperor and the influential generals over local authorities.

As a rule, we should feature no more than two or three Legion forts per county/release area, as the Imperial Legion questline and faction gameplay will otherwise become too cluttered and confusing. Of course, these can be accompanied by smaller watchtowers, sentinels, toll gates etc. to liven the place up a bit. My current proposal is to cut faction progression in three distinct chapters, in which the player joins a regional sub-legion (the First, Seventh, and Third Legion, see above), works through a single story, and advances to the next one. Each sub-legion would command about six to nine forts.

The First Legion:
  • Nameless fort north of Anvil, Gold Coast. A garrison overlooking the coast, home of coastline patrols against piracy and smugglers. Proposed name: Brinemoth Fort
  • Fort Strand, Gold Coast: HQ for the Gold COast. Support role: the fort has its own iron mine, mostly for producing armor and weapons for the Legion.
  • Fort Istirus, Kvatch: large fort south of Kvatch. Defends the border from Bosmer bandits.
  • Fort Vlasterus, Skingrad: large fort central in Skingrad County. Border guard against Bosmer and Khajiit, also bandits hiding in the Great Forest.
  • Fort Ontus, Chorrol: headquarters of the First Legion, deep in the Colovian Highlands. Besides guarding the Black Road, Ontus is also the Legion's largest training grounds: all recruits are sent here to learn the basics. Second largest military installation in Cyrodiil.
  • Fort Dirich, Chorrol: minor guardpost on the road from Chorrol to Skingrad. Close to the county border, kind of makes up for the absence of forts in Skingrad.
  • Fort Ash, Chorrol: minor guardpost on the road towards the Imperial City, deep in the Great Forest.

The Seventh Legion
  • Nameless fort close to Bravil. Headquarters of the Seventh Legion.
  • Fort Black Boot, Bravil: border guard.
  • Fort Gold-Throat, Cheydinhal: protects traffic on the Panther River.
  • Fort Cuptor, Cheydinhal: protects Mir Corrup.
  • Fort Teleman, Leyawiin: protects the major roads to Argonia.
  • Fort Redman, Leyawiin: major fort on the shore of the Niben.

The Ruby Legion
  • Bastion Isle, Imperial City: one of the eight Imperial Isles, completely occupied by military installations: the Imperial Prison, the headquarters of Legion central command, Legion archives and administration, the Academy of the Imperial Battlemages, barracks, forges, shipyards... The largest military installation in Tamriel.
  • Fort Alessia, Heartland: this and the following are all part of a massive network of fortresses guarding the shores of Lake Rumare.
  • Fort Homestead
  • Fort Virtue
  • Fort Nikel
  • Fort Empire
  • Fort Caractacus
  • Fort Urasek
  • Fort Magia

Misc.
  • Fort close to Pale Pass: guards the passage to Skyrim. With our cooperation with SHotN, perhaps this fort could be manned by legionaries from Skyrim?
  • Fort Farragut: guards the Blue road from Cheydinhal towards Morrowind.
  • Morrowind border fort: large fort at the pass towards Morrowind.


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