Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anvil]

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 28 Jul 2014, 22:22

sasquatch wrote:It is also important because of the nature of the city that we have distinct districts here tht show wealth and poverty, permanence and transience. I think this should also be done on a reasonable scale. Again port city should be emphasized with services and featured required to host a massive amount of trade and ships. That means dirty areas of cheap entertainment drink short term housing and crime. Dock workers and porters and sailors would frequent these areas. While merchants and others who profit from wealth are sheltered from harsher parts of daily life and commerce.

This is valid, there should be seedy areas here especially as a home for our TG

sasquatch wrote:More on the docks and ships. I think only 1 warship should be in port and it should be for good reason. Something being repaired or loaded that couldn't be done in the water. Another 2 could be anchored outside port in view of the shore and seen from viewpoint at castle. One point of the previous link was to show that ship don't dock like that without an extreme amount of effort. They can't be parked like a diesel powered boat. Smaller ships are used to move cargo and shuttle crew to port.

A space where ships can be constructed or repaired is a must have even if it is a completed ship model on skids proper up with boards. It would show this as a central port city an a place of power.
This site shows a few pictures of tradition ship construction:http://ask.metafilter.com/45303/How-did-massive-ships-embark-from-the-pier

This is superfluous. Remember, we are making a game set in a fantasy environment, the ultra-realism you are seeking is surplus to the requirement. We have to make things look cool above making perfect sense with the way things work in our universe. Some mage could be directing the ships in for all we know and we if we want to explain things in that way then we can.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 28 Jul 2014, 22:39

sasquatch wrote:I don't think the city needs to be very big. What makes the location unique should be emphasized (massive). Anvil is one of few port cities an it is on the coast, it is a major trading port and according to lore it attracts traffic from Skyrim. Anvil needs all the things a major port city would have; storehouses and trade houses, a large area for import/export by land and sea with required wagons and carts, taverns, hotels, brothel, shipyard etc.

It is also important because of the nature of the city that we have distinct districts here tht show wealth and poverty, permanence and transience. I think this should also be done on a reasonable scale. Again port city should be emphasized with services and featured required to host a massive amount of trade and ships. That means dirty areas of cheap entertainment drink short term housing and crime. Dock workers and porters and sailors would frequent these areas. While merchants and others who profit from wealth are sheltered from harsher parts of daily life and commerce.

More on the docks and ships. I think only 1 warship should be in port and it should be for good reason. Something being repaired or loaded that couldn't be done in the water. Another 2 could be anchored outside port in view of the shore and seen from viewpoint at castle. One point of the previous link was to show that ship don't dock like that without an extreme amount of effort. They can't be parked like a diesel powered boat. Smaller ships are used to move cargo and shuttle crew to port.

A space where ships can be constructed or repaired is a must have even if it is a completed ship model on skids proper up with boards. It would show this as a central port city an a place of power.
This site shows a few pictures of tradition ship construction:http://ask.metafilter.com/45303/How-did-massive-ships-embark-from-the-pier

I think more time needs to be devoted to planning the city before things get finalized.



Build your version of Anvil so we can compare? Also 90% of your comments are already in place. Also there is a diference between sense in game and sense irl.
4 cells are port/port related, I believe thats the biggest port built as of yet, and Anvil deserves it
Last edited by Praedator on 28 Jul 2014, 22:56, edited 1 time in total.

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 28 Jul 2014, 22:43

I like the city so far an appreciate the work, but I think it's be better to draw it out or discuss rather than do first or be offended. Also don't entirely agree. Planning things so they make sense should make a more immersive game.

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 28 Jul 2014, 23:06

sasquatch wrote:I like the city so far an appreciate the work, but I think it's be better to draw it out or discuss rather than do first or be offended. Also don't entirely agree. Planning things so they make sense should make a more immersive game.


Anvil has been in planning stage for past 2 years, Wolli worked on it and didn't finish it, took him months...I took my plan from Anvil concept, filled it in with what we all need, and tried to depict it as good as possible. If you want to go back and do planning be my guest and I will drop the claim so someone who does it better than me can do it. Also I have no problem with discussing anything about it, nor am I offended. I do this as a hobby and I love it.

Difference with me is that I build and decorate a city within a month or 6 weeks. Anvil has 5 Inns, 25 poor houses, 2 brothels, a dozen shops, a dozen market stalls, many warehouses, hqs of all guilds and Imperial Navy, about 10 middle class homes, 6 manors, and room for many midclass port workers, like captain, officers and such. Also a Wizard Manor, Lighthouse, Guard Towers, parks, graveyard, Temple of Dibella etc.

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 28 Jul 2014, 23:37

I dont agree a shiphull on skids is superfluous. I think every city should have a couple defining landmark features that its reveal local activity and industry to the player as they wander. These things should be self evident when feasible. We already have the ship bottom separated from top so it wouldnt be overly difficult.

http://www.clipperheritagetrail.com/ass ... we_017.png
http://www.dlumberyard.com/Images/Hahn/shipyard002.jpg
http://vikaschander.com/wp-content/uplo ... -model.jpg

Those numbers sound pretty good. There may be too many houses though, it seems too many redundant interiors (this is the point where we agree about stretching reaIity). WouId you be open to me adding some pictures or ideas or upIoading your AnviI at Iater point so we couId coIIaborate on this?

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 00:25

Thx for the pics but I know how shipyards look like, point is we have no models for accomplishing that, and makeshifting a boat with straight planks is impossible.

You should understand that our viewpoint is realistic but only to a certain extend, the extend being defined by what assets we have....and we cannot make custom assets for every instance a modder want supreme realism. Also size is a relative thing in MW, cities have 50-100 interiors whereas a real city has ten of thousands...same goes for shape, and then we have magic!

This thread is meant for the updates you mention, so I post progress right here, I cannot give detail shots because I just started detailing, so an overview will have to do. Still much landscaping required, and parks to be made.

Redundacy is also a respective thing, 6 manors, a dozen midclass, leaves how many poor ints? 5 inns on 40 houses or 5 inns on 25? See what I mean, I plan everything.

Also city building is very much about how it feels and looks, to accomplish that an interior more or less should be no problem.

User avatar
Infragris
Head of Lore
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 19:46

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Infragris » 29 Jul 2014, 00:28

I'm going to throw this out here, see if anything suits you. If you object to certain aspects/have a better idea, please make note in the relevant thread so we can adjust Anvil lore and dialogue as suited.

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 00:33

TY Infragris, I will read it carefully....what did wonder me was that Anvil is also dedicated to Kynareth, but we have no shrine for her.

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 00:41

SamirA, what is your opinion on the overview, see attachment.
Attachments
PC_Anvil overview, int designation.jpg

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 29 Jul 2014, 00:48

Infragris wrote:I'm going to throw this out here, see if anything suits you. If you object to certain aspects/have a better idea, please make note in the relevant thread so we can adjust Anvil lore and dialogue as suited.


This helped me alot since I dont know enough Elderscrolls Lore.

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 29 Jul 2014, 00:49

The only thing I question is the TG placement. Are we going with such an obvious situation or a more discrete style? I want infragris' input on this one. Other than that I like it. I really like how you walk in through the main gate and have all your guilds there and that bad ass casino thing. Seems the sort of thing merchants would love to have around to kill time while their guys waste money on games or hit up the lower end brothels and things.
Project Coordinator

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 29 Jul 2014, 00:59

I think the whoIe middIe shouId go back and the port shouId be open up in the center with harbor area on both sides an easier access. Industry on left side for bulk goods or larger warships to resupply. On the right an upper and middIe cIass area with premium goods and services, the chapel and greenspace. The castle over short bridge to and isolated high rise island.

The current design lacks open harbor or enough variation in height. Also needs a wider access road to more industry heavy dock area.

left

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... k_crop.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c6qBiC9oCEY/U ... 24x714.jpg

right
Image
Last edited by sasquatch on 29 Jul 2014, 01:09, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 01:01

TY SamirA :)

TG has two ints in this overview, the Guild HQ at obvious place and an Inn in the poor quarter, with an entry to the sewers. The obvious HQ is to maintain official presence, whereas the Inn is for the shady business they run.

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 01:05

sasquatch wrote:I thin the whoIe middIe middIe shouId go bac and the port shouId open up with harbor aread on both sides an easier access. Industry on one side with buI goods etc, and upper and middIe cIass on the other with goods and services

left

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... k_crop.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c6qBiC9oCEY/U ... 24x714.jpg

right
Image


This: http://s73.photobucket.com/user/Vality7/media/TES3%20Cyrodiil/anvilconcept.jpg.htmlis the concept I used, I am not going to change the layout overall.

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 29 Jul 2014, 01:16

The concept is actually more like what I'm saying, but developed over to the left more instead of straight back and into the harbor. I'd really like to be able to work with you on this. I believe it would make a good difference. The harbor area can definitely be improved even if that means going simply off the first concept, it is too crowded. Also, please excuse the typing. My jklf keys are not working on my desktop and my laptop doesn't have photoshop installed.

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 29 Jul 2014, 01:22

Sasquatch, you have some good ideas, they just need to be made earlier in the process. We have a number of other cities to be made where your input can be used to help us hammer out an idea of how they should look BEFORE we have made significant strides. You don't tell modders to change basic design elements after they are in place. You end up with Alma type issues at TR where things keep getting reset because instead of going with an idea you make something and then decide portions need to change until you have changed so much it is no longer good and is scrapped.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
Praedator
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 18:52
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 29 Jul 2014, 01:37

crowded is a good thing, looks busier and immersive, I use crowded feel also in the dense poor quarter, with alleys and levels....I am not going to work of rl pictures, or ideas, but work of concept and ingame needs (shops, guilds, markets etc) and make it both beautiful and feasible/joyeus to play, and player wil wantl to look at every little crack for rewards and goodies.

The cities quarters are made so that it makes sense.

Poor -> Access Poor Market/Poor Brothel/Imperial Harbour/Poor Bulk Harbour/Poor Passenger Harbour/Imperial Delegates Mid-Class
Rich -> Access Rich Market/Rich Brothel/Rich Passenger Harbour/Rich Bulk Harbour/Park/Temple of Dibella/Mid-Class District

From Casino outward - Poor Passenger Harbour/Rich Passenger Harbour/Poor Bulk/ Rich Bulk/Imperial Galleons/Imperial Warships

Shops are next to markets, Poor have open sewers, Graveyard has a crypt, Park area has a gardener, Harbour has a Lighthouse, Imperial Navy has a very big HQ, Enough warehouses to house all factions, a solitaire living Wizard manor, Stables with barn, etc

User avatar
Infragris
Head of Lore
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 19:46

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Infragris » 29 Jul 2014, 01:37

I don't think my opinion on TG is very important: they are supposed to be very fluid and mobile, and there's little lore to support where and how they set up. The most important thing to remember is that the Thieves Guild is the ruling underground power here, unlike in Vvardenfell where they had to contend with the Cammona Tong. This should reflect in their possessions and position. If you've ever played the Thieves Guild mission in Thief: the Dark Project, you know what I mean.

Kynareth is he patron saint of sailors and travelers, so a dedicated place in the harbor would be nice. The Order of Kynareth is based in Sutch, however, so they will be detailed more fully in that city. I'm still working on the IC stuff, but priests of Kynareth are supposed to be wanderers and vagabonds, so they can show up as npcs without specific architectural context.
Last edited by Infragris on 29 Jul 2014, 01:38, edited 1 time in total.

sasquatch
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 03:55

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby sasquatch » 29 Jul 2014, 01:38

I havent done exterior claims so I cant know exactly how much time Praedator had put into this. I assumed he was in planning stages and was in process of roughing this out since it looks significantly different from Wolli's work. I dont want this to become some weird hostile thing so I'll let these ideas go. This projects isnt big enough for egos.

User avatar
Infragris
Head of Lore
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 19:46

Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Infragris » 29 Jul 2014, 01:41

Sasquatch, I suggest you look into Sutch: the city was not featured in any previous game, and is very undetailed as of now. It is ripe for unique ideas.

PreviousNext

Return to Claimed



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron