Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anvil]

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Scamp » 08 Aug 2014, 15:28

Praedator wrote:[...]

It should feel like a city;
[...]


I do agree with your points and Anvil's size probably is fine as it is, but seeing you bringing up this point again makes me want to mention once more: Towns in Morrowind somehow felt like cities to me, and they weren't big. That's the magic of Morrowind and we should maintain some of that.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 08 Aug 2014, 23:24

This isn't really the place for this discussion, but I think in the future most other cities won't be so large. Anvil is really the big focal point city in Colovia with its port for both trade and military. The IC will obviously be very large and one of our cities in Nibenay will most likely be about Anvil size as it will be the focal point of Nibenay, though I don't have a particular one in mind right now. Other cities can certainly be smaller.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 09 Aug 2014, 07:11

Its just my style and insight, if that is a problem I can as well just work on my own mod.

[edit] also if that is so much true why does Stirk have 50+ interiors, and should Anvil only be a tad larger...just doesn't make sense. I cannot make cities with 20 interiors, and don't have the capability to make it look and feel like a city with so few elements. If that is what you guys want then I guess Scamp can make all the cities...I just am not good enough for that.
Last edited by Praedator on 09 Aug 2014, 07:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Worsas » 09 Aug 2014, 08:19

I think it makes, in a world context, a lot of sense that cities in Cyrodiil would be larger than in other provinces and I think that cities have been intended to be rather large in earlier days of the project.

I personally believe you when you say that you watched your scale and space and kept it in a reasonable scale in context to Stirk and with the given layout and the size of ships. I don't think it is too large and I would like to continue with similar dimensions in other cities if it appears to be a doable path.

We should maybe continue considering city dimensions once we have gotten past interiorizing Anvil. We have a lot of spurt right now and maybe we will not experience a major drop of progress again that would lead to a stirk-like situation. Stirk as such has progressed rather speedy up to the last couple of interiors, if I'm not mistaken.

Praedator, if you have the patience to get along with us on Anvil and maybe beyond, I promise I will hurry up with your needed Anvil objects. You know... we cannot afford to lose you, at all.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Scamp » 09 Aug 2014, 17:04

Praedator wrote:Its just my style and insight, if that is a problem I can as well just work on my own mod.

[edit] also if that is so much true why does Stirk have 50+ interiors, and should Anvil only be a tad larger...just doesn't make sense. I cannot make cities with 20 interiors, and don't have the capability to make it look and feel like a city with so few elements. If that is what you guys want then I guess Scamp can make all the cities...I just am not good enough for that.


I never said your style or insight is wrong, I merely agreed that we should keep cities smaller for the most part when moving on to other areas.

As far as I can recall Stirk had less than 50 interiors, but it doesn't matter. Moreover, I never implied that you should make cities with 20 interiors, in fact I remember myself saying that it makes sense to have Cyrodiil's cities larger than vanilla ones.

I will definitely not make all cities, I want to cooperate. Nothing has been said against your vision of Anvil and I do appreciate your hard work. I want to work with you, not against you; a bit of constructive criticism should be allowed, though.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 10 Aug 2014, 00:21

Scamp wrote:
Praedator wrote:Its just my style and insight, if that is a problem I can as well just work on my own mod.

[edit] also if that is so much true why does Stirk have 50+ interiors, and should Anvil only be a tad larger...just doesn't make sense. I cannot make cities with 20 interiors, and don't have the capability to make it look and feel like a city with so few elements. If that is what you guys want then I guess Scamp can make all the cities...I just am not good enough for that.


I never said your style or insight is wrong, I merely agreed that we should keep cities smaller for the most part when moving on to other areas.

As far as I can recall Stirk had less than 50 interiors, but it doesn't matter. Moreover, I never implied that you should make cities with 20 interiors, in fact I remember myself saying that it makes sense to have Cyrodiil's cities larger than vanilla ones.

I will definitely not make all cities, I want to cooperate. Nothing has been said against your vision of Anvil and I do appreciate your hard work. I want to work with you, not against you; a bit of constructive criticism should be allowed, though.


If it is about other future cities then don't clutter your concerns in my thread about Anvil. I have done my best posted screens regularly and asked for everyone's ideas etc. I also changed most concerns immediately. After thet don't start on me about the size of the city when 60% is done.
Also Anvil ought to be the home of many different things and trades, if you want it smaller be prepared to cut on that too, smaller guild buildings, less ships, no Imperial Navy, a tiny fort, no markets, forget about passenger harbour and no warehouses, 6 poor ints....then what?

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 10 Aug 2014, 03:21

Yes, as I said, this isn't the place to talk about other cities. Lets keep this thread OT from now on please. No Prae, Anvil doesn't need to be smaller.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 10 Aug 2014, 10:10

I am just pissed off because I tried my best to keep it as small as possible because of these concerns, which were vented here and at SHotN. But with so many trades and ships, I still have a rather big city in size and number. Also note that nearly half of the urban area is used for rich class, amounting to about 20 ints, another 30% is harbour/trade related, and the rest, only a handful is poor.
This said even the small area with poor, is large enough to hold 24 ints, I made a sewage channel, to keep the amount smaller and tighten the roads and paths to give it a cramped feel, used hanging cloth and awnings to give it a more cramped feel, and use small outside areas to bring life to the area. If the Poor Quarter would have been a rich quarter only 4-5 Manors would fit, and you have a 85 interiors counting city.
I try to say I was bound to build Anvil acording to the size of the war ships, I kept the harbour size at a minimum not to widthen the size of Anvil. If you look at the distance between the main Gate and the Passenger Harbour you can also see that I kept the depth of the city to a minimum as well. Also the smallest quarter is the Poor Quarter, so that not too many undesignated poor are created, yet enough room for poor from Oblivion, a few inns, TG, few shacks and a pawnbroker...not to forget gambling areas. Also some poor have small amounts of food growing in the rough garden parts behind buildings.
In all I think Poor Quarter got the right feel, maybe a few ints could be ditched, but that would also ditch the cramped feeling. As for the city layout I think its is n interesting network of roads, not just straight, and 90 degree corners, access to water/sewage in every quarter, a nice city center around passenger harbour, with shops/stalls for poor/mid and rich, logical logistics, attractive night life, all guilds, and close to stables, and coach company just outside the main gate.
The poor quarter borders the city centre, the harbours, and the Imperial Navy where 90% of them has their jobs. The Rich quarter is quite seperate in an area with Chapel of Dibella, many gardens and the Anvil Boating Club, its serene, quiet and a very wanted place to live. Also the Order of the Lily could be assigned to the quarter.
The whole area under the Harbour and Poor Quarter (20% of the cities' area)) has been utilized to hold the graveyard with crypt, a fishing village (4 ints), Imperial Navy (3 ints), a 'mad' Wizard Manor, An Apple Orchard (2 ints) and the Lighthouse.

I think this layout fits Anvil best, and if so, also the amount of interiors that come with it....

Housing:
5 Rich Manors
9 Mid-Class Manors/Houses next to a market
6 Mid-Class Important People like Retired Captain/EEC Officer/Hero
17 Poor Houses
9 Very Poor (GC) Houses, 3 are related to other ints.

Totalling 46 ints in 105 so less than half are residences, rest are utilities ranging from warehouse to castle, shop to stables, shrine to Chapel.

I don't see where I should decrease the amount of interiors.

[Edit] There are also 2 poor appartment and 2 mid class appartment buildings...but doesn't change the calculation much...

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 10 Aug 2014, 12:57

I just said you don't need to and that this thread needs to get back OT. This thread is for updates and suggestions on detailing the Anvil claim not a battle over how large it is. I don't want anyone else talking about the size of cities in this thread including you Prae. Talk about Anvil details here nothing else, this means everybody. Thank you.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Yeti » 10 Aug 2014, 21:30

Honestly, on a second look, the size of the city looks fine to me; especially if it's meant to be one of the provinces largest settlements. I don't think it needs to be shrunk, and didn't mean for my post to come across that way.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Saint_Jiub » 10 Aug 2014, 22:17

I'll reserve judgement until I can play around in-game, the flat CS lighting is messing me up right now I think. My only concern, looking at these screenshots, is that that vivid red pottery sticks out like a baboon's backside right now and might need to get retextured at some point, but again it'll probably look fine with SSAO and in-game lighting.

EDIT: Also, we might want to pull the dreugh dreugh armor from the marketplace, since we're on the far side of Tamriel from Morrowind, where it's produced. Maybe nordic fur instead?

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 11 Aug 2014, 00:56

I don't think the pottery looks so bad in game, but it could be toned down to be a bit more like the Dunmer redware if need be. It does look extremely bright in the CS, but what doesn't?
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Saint_Jiub » 11 Aug 2014, 02:50

True. I'm not gonna do anything with it now, it was just something that struck me.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 11 Aug 2014, 06:48

Yes colour and shades are bad in CS, I soon will make some ingame screens. Also the Trinity Fruit looks very bright.

The Dreugh Armor is at a rich market stall, I was looking for a decent, expensive but not very (because it is a market after all), but quite rare armor set. Anvil being a centre of trade I imagine many exotic things could be available. Also if Dreugh armor only exists in Morrowind, then why has PC completed the armor set?

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Infragris » 11 Aug 2014, 09:50

The completed Dreugh armor set was likely pulled from Tamriel Rebuilt. I think you're right, though: we should have some exotica for sale in the market, and Dreugh is a perfect fit.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby SamirA » 12 Aug 2014, 00:47

The armor is from TR and as Infragris said, we should have some exotic wares for sale in Cyrodiil ESPECIALLY in Anvil and the IC.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 12 Aug 2014, 15:18

OK thank you SamirA :)

I am nearing to the point that I cannot advance with cluttering any further...I am starting to put rocks and kelp along the coastline. Vertex shading is done, and all clutter except containers and clutter related to containers has finished.

Therefor I would really appreciate to get the latest PC_data (for containers) so I can continue with the docks, and other areas with containers. Another hold up is the wallset, that prevents me from finishing the Rich quarter and a few other areas. The bridges don't hold up anything.
Another help would be the Anvil Banners but they don't hold up progress much.
Also the updated ingredients are needed to finish the food stalls.

If our modellers are up to it a windmill or two (for grain milling) would do good on the Lighthouse Peninsula, but thats just an 'extra' idea.
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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Saint_Jiub » 12 Aug 2014, 16:19


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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Praedator » 12 Aug 2014, 16:22

Saint_Jiub wrote:Windmills?



The left one could work, don't know how big their layout is with the add-on building.

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Re: Gold Coast Exterior: Q6-7 + P6-7 + O6-7 [Praedator] [Anv

Postby Worsas » 12 Aug 2014, 18:05

Another hold up is the wallset, that prevents me from finishing the Rich quarter and a few other areas. The bridges don't hold up anything.
Another help would be the Anvil Banners but they don't hold up progress much.
Also the updated ingredients are needed to finish the food stalls.

Perhaps, it would be good to send Tarius a pm about the wallset. The bridges and banners are already in, btw. the ingredients are already updated aswell. Should I still wait on the property wallset by Tarius?

If our modellers are up to it a windmill or two (for grain milling) would do good on the Lighthouse Peninsula, but thats just an 'extra' idea.

Not sure on that, honestly. Are there any farms in proximity? The only thing that we could have in terms of grain around here, would be the spikey rice. But rice usually isn't made into flour.

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