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Helena
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Re: -wip-

Postby Helena » 25 Sep 2011, 12:56

It's not really up to me as I'm not involved with making exteriors, but I certainly don't mind seeing people work on other regions - even ones we won't get around to for a while in the main project. That said, I think there should probably be at least some discussion of concepts first. It would be a shame if wolli had to redo all his work because we decided that Blackwood should look different.

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Re: -wip-

Postby Scamp » 25 Sep 2011, 14:04

Actually, I don't know exactly what it is, but something feels weird in these shots. Maybe it's the clear weather, however I can't exclude that it might also be the trees... Can I have some opinions on that?
Other than that, I have discussed this with Wolli a while back, and we decided that he can be starting with Blackwood in the east while I am doing Stirk to the west, and we also work together on the Gold Coast in the meantime. I am fine with that.
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Re: -wip-

Postby Praedator » 25 Sep 2011, 16:00

how about more darkgreen trees and not like olive, after all it is called Blackwood. The green will compliment the other surroundings.

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Helena
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Re: -wip-

Postby Helena » 25 Sep 2011, 16:04

It took me a while to work out, but I think the problem is that the draw distance is so low. E.g. in this shot you can see that the horizon beyond the trees is completely blank. I assume this is because Wolli's only done a couple of cells so far, and the surrounding area really is blank.

Regarding the trees: Some of them look a bit too 'regular' in their design. E.g. look at the small trees in the left and centre of this picture: the branches are all at similar heights, and they all 'split' into smaller branches in the same way and the same place. Also, since it's a swampy area, perhaps the leaf canopies could do with being thicker.

I also agree with Praedator that there should be something 'black' about it to reflect the name. Perhaps a darker bark on the trees?

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Re: -wip-

Postby Worsas » 25 Sep 2011, 17:01

As our cyrodiil is already tropical and subtropical further north, I simply cannot like the idea that the Blackwoods could in any way resemble a temperate place. That is pretty much the biggest concern I have about wolli's wip.

I still like the foto Lady Nerevar has shown as her idea of the nibenay valley with a broad massive river flowing through a tropical landscape. The Blackwoods should continue that, but should be darker and muddier. And it should be the most alien part of Cyrodiil, because it is in the mysterious, unseen south of Tamriel.

I remember when the fungal Othreleth Forest was discussed at TR that there are many ways a mushroom can look and many of the concepts that have been drawn never became used. like these two I had to think of:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6528/scan0001ru.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8774/shroomtrees.jpg

I don't mean to say we should have tree-sized mushrooms, rather ones that are small container plants but are like these above from their shape.

I have no problem with the shape of Wolli's trees, tbh. I think he has put some thought into them and they are very rooty which is good, it's merely the bark and the leaves that strike me as too temperate.

I realize that there is a lot more involved in here. Wolli will want to add several locations of interest for which meshes need to get modelled:

-Dwelled Houses in the wilderness
-Cisterns (idea)
-Kothringi Ruins

Just to name a few. Those are all things that need time and special attention. Cluttering a landscape with fitting plants and rocks is only half of the job.

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Re: -wip-

Postby Scamp » 25 Sep 2011, 19:13

Sounds reasonable. Actually I do not dislike the trees in general, but indeed the leaves. They could be darker.
Helena, I can't view any of these pictures you linked as Wolli seems to have removed them from his dropbox.
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Helena
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Re: -wip-

Postby Helena » 25 Sep 2011, 20:09

Hmm, that's strange - they still work for me :/ OK, let's try again: [1] [2]

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Re: -wip-

Postby dirnae » 25 Sep 2011, 20:10

It's because she's trying to link from an album. Only photos in public dropbox directories can have direct links, AFAIK. They're working for you Helena because your computer recently accessed those direct links,

I'm not sure where the border for Blackwood is, but it's like 3/4 of Vvardenfell right?
This is the small part next to Elsewyr to the west, IIRC.
Ideally, if I actually am right about the size you'll want a differing environment, you can make some small edits to this and use it for the very west and as a transition between jungle, and the swampier environment Wolli wanted to make in the East.

I'm pretty sure he did say he was making dark mangrove trees and such for that Argonia border area, while using this for the Elsewyr border, but it's been a while since I talked to him about this.
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Re: -wip-

Postby SamirA » 25 Sep 2011, 21:28

I agree on going for a darker look in general for the region. Most swamps and things are full of rich soils from all the decay. Rich soils are dark browns and blacks and the trees should also reflect this darker color as well as the rocks being darker. The design so far is going a nice way, but the color is all wrong.

As for going temperate further south, I don't see much issue there. The equator could run right through the middle of the IC for all we know which means the further north and south you get from there would mean you get cooler.
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Re: -wip-

Postby SamirA » 25 Sep 2011, 21:32

On further review of the screens I must say that the leaf change would be good. I don't know what to, but other than just going with darker colors in the region this is really my only complaint right now. I think that this is a lovely swampy region, perhaps more rotting logs and things, but it has a nice look to it.
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Re: -wip-

Postby Wollibeebee » 25 Sep 2011, 21:46

yeah. don't worry guys, the whole place is gonna eventually get it's textures replaced.. i just forgot about it on holiday, got giddy and took some screens...
but the trees textures need redoing, and like helena said; the branches.

1. Atm, i'm retexing everything.

2. I'm coming up with ideas for houses and cottages in the region, i was thinking that i could retex some of S:HOTN's "nordic" shacks? or i could use the dunmer shacks from MW, (the nords of dagon-fel used them, remember).

3. also, i'm coming u with ideas for making the foliage alot more unique. http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt29 ... usk_09.jpg
if you look at this you'll see that vality's managed to make some sorta... flora mesh that works a bit like a bush or ivy. So i can hopefully do something like that, to make them look like the trees have moss growing up them. (though there'd be lichen and moss on the tree's bark texture anyway).

4. Ok, last thing.. for the east the region is going to change gradually... it's a big-big place, and it can't just be the same all the way.. cause that's boring :P
for the east i plan to use both those trees i made for aragonia (for fun, not for a project). as well as lots of mangroves (i went for a 3 hour kayak through a mangrove.. eh.. forest, and i wanna try it)
http://www.niwa.co.nz/sites/default/fil ... _large.jpg
http://www.traveljournals.net/pictures/ ... ealand.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/12432 ... 97287b.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_00-axWSfzIs/T ... ve%2B1.JPG
http://www.biol.wwu.edu/mbel/media/Mrs_ ... groves.jpg
http://www.crystalxp.net/galerie/img/im ... 0-5232.jpg

Samira: more rotting stuff it is. :jumprope:

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Re: -wip-

Postby SamirA » 26 Sep 2011, 03:06

I like the sound of everything minus the buildings. I wouldn't worry much about those. We will be creating an all new Nibenese set, or using the ones we have in data, for the towns and things of the region (I would rather come up with something completely new than use the ones we currently have though). The cities will of course be all new as each city from Oblivion plus the three new ones will be.

Keep up the good work though. I think we are getting to a nice place with this region. The way you placed the objects in the wip is really creating a lovely swampy yet foresty feel that I think works well with the jungle theme of the province and the swamp character of the region.
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Re: -wip-

Postby Praedator » 26 Sep 2011, 06:21

Wolli has done a very good research on swamp trees and its habitat. Imo several transitions could be made like folowing:

the pictures show the swamp forest under water, or with low tide the flooding areas with small points from bottom, these areas are near the water bodies, generally river for that matter. You will have to choose flooded or not, but it cannot be flooded on one side of river and not on the other.

The habitats between the swamp and the higher areas can be a steep change, like mountain or large hill, immediately stopping all plantlife as it is in swamp, to a slope. I believe those slopes need to have a few jungle plants and rocks, as well as undergrowth like a kind of flower, some shrooms and maybe grass.

Roads could be made on taluds, like dikes with road on top that cross the region, they can have ferns and flowers on its side, but the shape of road (its width) should vary to look natural, and swirl rather than straight.

Another transition is between swamp and jungleforest, I believe it is right to use like a quarter of a cell to exchange flora from jungle to dry spots in swamp, and vice versa, with textures and its trees being the actual border.

I would like to see more kinds of bushes for undergrowth, with different sorts of leaves, like one with narrow long and pointy lightgreen leaves (clearwater), and one with tough looking dark green leaves (swamp), lets say in size and sort of structure of holly berry.

Another point I like is having beehives (with collectable honey), to be used at rotting trees for example.

Cities in the swamp should lay pretty much higher than the swamp itself and should provide points of sight over the swamp region. Swamps generally have low broad trees, as jungle tends to have high trees with rich undergrowth.

Overall the Blackwood, should look blackish green, and the jungle a fresh green, and both colours should compliment well to eachother to get best transitions I believe.

I hope this is of assistance :)

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Re: -wip-

Postby Wollibeebee » 26 Sep 2011, 22:43

thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?

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Re: -wip-

Postby Tarius » 26 Sep 2011, 23:12

Wollibeebee wrote:thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?

Bees will live anywhere their nest wont get flooded.
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Re: -wip-

Postby Praedator » 27 Sep 2011, 07:06

Wollibeebee wrote:thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?


yes they can, they can fly quite a distance for flowers, I dunno what kind of flowers are in Blackwood, but I like that lady's smock it is I believe.

Swamp Trolls love honey!!

The hive could be a container with a trap (being a bee attack) when you try to pick it.

Ingredients could be honey, and rate(wax), honey as a food, and rate for candle making, you can selll it to candlemaker.

just ideas :P

[Edit] Swamp and mangrove are 2 different things, swamp has rather stable level of water, mangrove has tides. Swamp has lot of variety in plantlife, mangoves much less, generally 1-2 types of trees only, and some shrooms. Technically mangroves are in salt water, and swamps sweet/brackish, but for Cyrodill this fact can be omitted, as we will have sweet water mangroves :)
So I would make the mangroves only along the riverbasin and not broader than 3/4 cell whereas swamp can be the lands between mangrove and jungle.

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Re: -wip-

Postby Revenant » 27 Sep 2011, 17:18

Tarius wrote:
Wollibeebee wrote:thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?

Bees will live anywhere their nest wont get flooded.



But Jungle Bees?

I like the idea alot but I think making them some kind of mosquito thing that has harvestable "honey" would fit better. We have Tantha's over the otherside of Cyrodiil with harvestable items from inside their burrows so it'd be nice to have something similar in the black wood.

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Re: -wip-

Postby Praedator » 27 Sep 2011, 18:31

Revenant wrote:
Tarius wrote:
Wollibeebee wrote:thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?

Bees will live anywhere their nest wont get flooded.



But Jungle Bees?

I like the idea alot but I think making them some kind of mosquito thing that has harvestable "honey" would fit better. We have Tantha's over the otherside of Cyrodiil with harvestable items from inside their burrows so it'd be nice to have something similar in the black wood.


If that fits better why not :)

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Re: -wip-

Postby Tarius » 27 Sep 2011, 19:41

Revenant wrote:
Tarius wrote:
Wollibeebee wrote:thanks praed, i'll remember all that ;)

also.. beehives.. i'd love to add those, are you sure they'd be in a swamp though?

Bees will live anywhere their nest wont get flooded.



But Jungle Bees?

I like the idea alot but I think making them some kind of mosquito thing that has harvestable "honey" would fit better. We have Tantha's over the otherside of Cyrodiil with harvestable items from inside their burrows so it'd be nice to have something similar in the black wood.

We need to have the bees come out and attack people that try to get too close to the nest. Like real bees. Large nests can be very deadly.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
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Re: -wip-

Postby Wollibeebee » 27 Sep 2011, 21:12

i like the mozy idea.
also, there's like.. 1 flowering plant in the blackwoods, 5 mushrooms, and some http://www.mooseyscountrygarden.com/ham ... isplay.jpg

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