Release Area : Sutch

[roerich]

I have some new ideas and concepts.

- The main area of Sutch being on top of a rock in a fork in the river running between Brena and the lake.
- Having bridges in different levels reminiscent of Almas Thirr.
- High elevation surrounding the rivers, easily defendable.



Bad perspective on that pic, better explained here: http://i.imgur.com/M8b5dSa.png

[Infragris]

That looks amazing, roerich. Really fires up the imagination. I'm intrigued by those inhabited ridges on the cliff face next to the elevator tower: this switchback path/market could be the original way up the cliff, but after the elevator was built this route fell into disuse, and is now Kali Mes territory. Part of the Kali Mes questline could involve sabotaging the elevator and thus cutting off Imperial access to the river.

I also really like the sense of scale your drawing has: the number of buildings and their density are very reminiscent of cities like Gnisis or Suran.

[roerich]

Thanks! I want to do a more detailed map showing some particular concepts I have, i.e. for the lift.

Yes I figured the same thing about the path. A series of cave systems and external ridges form the most of the path, now inhabited by paupers, dockworkers and dangerous people. Kali Mes territory for sure, and some of the caves extend far into the rock, holding illicit goods, kidnapped merchants, etc. The market is now exclusively on the top, except if you want Kali Mes goods.

[Scamp]

Size looks absolutely perfect! Has some nice scale to it, but doesn't take it over the top with the amount of buildings.

What's that little town to the right? Some sort of outskirts? If so, who lives there, if not, is it related to economy, mining or whatnot? May have missed some bits of information beforehand, did my best to read up on it, please excuse any stupid questions.

[roerich]

What's that little town to the right? Some sort of outskirts? If so, who lives there, if not, is it related to economy, mining or whatnot? May have missed some bits of information beforehand, did my best to read up on it, please excuse any stupid questions.

I put a windmill, some farms (though I don't know what could survive in that rocky ground, perhaps some mountain berry bushes) and some grapevines growing on the edge. Could be a mining area as well.

[Scamp]

Interesting. Yeah, I didn't think Sutch would rely on agriculture too much. I mean, food's gotta come from somewhere, but the surrounding areas don't suggest a lot of that kind.

They'd probably get their grain from the areas surrounding Brina Cross (which, as I had planned, provide a lot of space for farming).

[roerich]

That sounds good. Some mining could be more in order, and timber from the Colovian plateau to the East.

Food could come from the Brina Cross area, yes. I also imagine a lot of fishing in the lake and Brena. Perhaps some hunting in the forests/wilderness to the East as well.

[SamirA]

Could be some sort of imperial settlement that arose when Sutch was a bigger deal and still part of hammerfell initially. Sort of like our version of dale to the dwarves of the lonely mountain.

[Infragris]

Discussion on Imperial and chivalric titles of nobility can be continued here.

[roerich]

Some ideas:

* While of course being a prime example of a frontier/border town, Sutch main focus should be trade town. I don't know how to best portray this, but perhaps leave out major fortifications besides walls (being on a rock in a river fork is pretty fortified in itself), add more bridges in different vertical levels to show that many people are moving through this city.

* It should have a quite prominent Fighter's Guild providing caravan guards, but private sellsword companies make their living here as well. Perhaps show some competition between opposing groups through quests.

* The Eastern cliffside is the prime Kali Mes territory, the lower/inner dwellings being completely lawless. Some secret entrances to the upper city (which is otherwise guarded - the elevator dropoff, the NE bridge and the lower S bridge entrance.) Lots of commoners live here as well, but the real trade action is on the top. Imperial Enforcers used to routinely raid known KM quarters, but know these raids are ending in more Imperial casualties, the places are better hidden, and the KM have turned the general opinion of the common cliff dwellers against the Imperials, both by helping the poor folks with food and goods, but also the Imperials sometimes targeting wrong locations and executing innoncents.

[Infragris]

I agree about the importance of trade: there should not be too many farms around the place, show it as dependent on other cities for food. I'm wouldn't drop the fortifications, though, as this was a very contested city in its day. Cliff-fortresses are a big part of the Colovian look. The walls should maybe be in a state of disrepair.

One big rival to the Fighter's Guild would be the Knightly Order of Iron, defenders of Zenithar. A Zenitharite presence in the city would also increase it's mercantile feel, not to mention that the Orders of Kynareth and Zenithar are supposed to be very close.

[roerich]

Agreed, I want the cliff fortress to have an imposing look, but I was talking more about the main function not being a fortress. I don't know how to portray that.

[Scamp]

I doubt Sutch would never have been mainly a fortress in this location. We'd just have to show it's mainly a place of trading now as opposed to being a fortress. It may look like a fortress from the outside, but at its heart the player will find out more of its true nature by exploring the place, finding warehouses, carts and talking to merchants travelling through.

[Infragris]

Some thoughts on locations close to Sutch:

• Bleak Mine: I propose we make this a salt mine. It would be something different from the usual gold and iron mines, and it gives the city an obvious source of income. After all, salt is very valuable.
• Fortresses: We currently have two forts close to Sutch: Fort Sutch to the east of the lake, and Crowhaven to the south. Do we want to keep Fort Sutch, or will its function be folded into the keep of Sutch itself? Also, is Crowhaven a modern Imperial fort or an old Reman one (that last one goes for all the fortresses on the map, really).
• Lord Drad's Estate: Drad was a Dunmer in Oblivion. I'm not very keen on having Dunmer nobility this far west: perhaps this could be the personal estate of the Baron of Sutch, or of one of his vassals. Drad could be introduced as a member of the Imperial Legion, who is rewarded with a now lordless piece of land after the Sutch insurrection.

[Worsas]

Also, is Crowhaven a modern Imperial fort or an old Reman one?

A reman ruin would be cool for me. We could assume that crow haven somehow refers to the law-breaking activities like piracy around the region that in earlier times were more frequent than today? I don't have your timeline right in front of my mind now. Regardless of that question, I think that crowhaven <--> ruin are two things that somehow work nicely with each other.

I support all your other propositions.

[Infragris]

Looking at the location of Lake Sutch on the claim map makes me think we should just cut all association between the lake and Brena River: they're just too far away from each other. Instead, we can just have the lake as it is, maybe some waterfalls from surrounding cliffs to explain the inflow, and have the river surrounding the city flowing directly west into the ocean. This also means there's less attention drawn to the void beyond the border.