silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

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SamirA
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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby SamirA » 11 Jan 2013, 18:09

A model would certainly make it easier as you are a modeller, but if you are that worried about it, which is beyond me, then post as many screens as you possibly can.
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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 11 Jan 2013, 19:05

SamirA wrote:A model would certainly make it easier as you are a modeller, but if you are that worried about it, which is beyond me, then post as many screens as you possibly can.


I wasn't worried about it, just wondering what was the most easiest for you guys that's all. I'll package up a few models in zip file along with some screenshots tonight.


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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby SamirA » 12 Jan 2013, 17:23

Now those traps are definately something you do that would be of use here. Some nice working Ayleid styled traps for our ruins would be fantastic.
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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 12 Jan 2013, 21:15

SamirA wrote:Now those traps are definately something you do that would be of use here. Some nice working Ayleid styled traps for our ruins would be fantastic.


Do you have any concepts in mind for me to model to animate?

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby SamirA » 12 Jan 2013, 21:47

They ayleid traps from oblivion made to fit our set should be concept enough. I don't have any for something new as of yet, but we will come up with some once we see that we can have functional ones period. We have a new Colovian Tomb set that would be a nice place for some traps as well, but all that comes later.
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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Tarius » 12 Jan 2013, 22:59

silver_fox_rival wrote:
SamirA wrote:I just explained the process. You post something to showcase and we decide if that gets you in. Same process everyone else goes through.

In your case Tarius is the person with the most say as he is the Head of Models. It is a short process. Simply a review of your work.


So should submit models as well? Or just screenshots?

Just post a file with the .nif models and the textures in it. We will take a look.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 13 Jan 2013, 03:43

Ok will do after I get off of work tmw.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 14 Jan 2013, 19:16

Alright boys, here are the models....

http://www.adrive.com/public/JhDFvZ/Sho ... Models.rar

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Tarius » 14 Jan 2013, 21:28

Ok, I need a second opinion on this.

I have mixed feelings. I see places that use far more polys than needed but at the same time, there are areas that use too few.
SamirA, how close do you want texture paths? There are quite a few which are incorrect, but that shouldnt be too much of a problem to fix.
On at least one mesh has kinda a wierd hierarchy to the nodes which isnt standard.
On the animations. You can obviously do them, but they are jerky and not smooth.
Textures, a few of them are good(I do like the flames though alot), but at the same time, a few of them just dont look that good or seem to fit.

You seem to be all over the place. I can see you have the ability to be good, but your work is kinda everywhere. I see across the spectrum from good to bad. In otherwords, it isnt consistant and that makes me weary.

Summary, I am concerned about the animations being jerky and the poly numbers used.
Take for example the elven palm tree. The stems are overkill while their base isnt smooth enough.
Looking at the abacus, that has much room for improvement in the way the mesh was made. The overall look is fine(ignoring the fact that there are probably too many counters, but that doesnt matter much here), but its no where near optimized to what it could be; and I mean like the poly number could be halved almost without removing any counters. We arnt quite to the point yet unfortunatly where this amount would be ok to just throw in. Just keep in mind that the one off model at really high numbers is fine, but the unfortunate fact is that there are no scenes with just a singular model; it all adds up.

Looking at the spikes as an example, thats perfect for the number of polys used. The textures on the other hand, dont seem to fit. I am not too worried about textures here though as they can always be redone, but I am borderline on whether they are ok for now though.

Taking the sconce as an example, I see where you tried to limit the poly numbers on one part, while putting alot more than needed on another that would have been better off using a texure to fill in the detail, instead of mesh geometry.

Anyway, you have the ability, but it seems like you could use practice. Wolli, come look at these and give me your opinion.


Yay! This is my 1000th post!
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Wollibeebee » 14 Jan 2013, 22:50

Tarius is right, there's some really good things here, but some equal bad things.

Things like the Cattails and the Bealding Hearts look really aged, yet the Blue Ixia and the Reishi Shroom are great, and I can defiantly see something like them in P:C.

I think the main problem, and perhaps the result in Taruis' qualms is the geometry, and that a lot of the models depend upon that more than their textures. For example: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23627856/flower1.JPG
this model has a lot more faces that it needs, and the same affect could be achieved via an alpha'd petal texture, with about twice as few faces to simulate the 3D effect, using an alpha would also remove the viable edges from the leaves. The Bleeding heart leaves are a good example of this, rather than using an alpha, you've just cut away the mesh. Why? The Elven Palm looks much better because you didn't.

I would like to get you promoted, I think you have potential, and that your models are good. But I'd like to see you relying less on generated textures (specially the ones used on the cattails, they're striped to much that it makes the model appear to have a UV error) and cutting away meshes to make shapes, and more on alpha maps and photo-realistic textures.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 15 Jan 2013, 03:07

Well when you guys come to your final decision, you know where to find me.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Tarius » 15 Jan 2013, 04:47

Ok, lets see here.

First thing,
Look at: bleeding_heart_01.nif
and the textures that go with it:
b_heart_petal.dds
b_heart_petal_01.dds
What program do you use for image editing? Have you ever used the magic wand feature? If you havent, take a look at it and play around with it; I would recommend gimp or paint.net for editing for free if you dont have photoshop or something.
Anyway, the point is that you then dont have to manually delete pixels around a contrasting edge like the flowers in those textures. Some work is still required, but overall, it helps alot. After you refine an edge(so that you have the flower part with the rest being alpha), you can duplicate the layer you just worked with and then give it a slight blur. Make sure this new blurred layer is under the original and now, instead of a hard edge, you have a soft edge. You of course go about playing with it some and combining the layers so it blends well, but that is the basics.
With this particular thing, I am on the fence on whether a simple plane would be good here or if its fine as you have it now. In some cases, solid like you have the flower is fine, in most, a simply plane with an alpha texture will work best.
A note on colors/materials. Ambient, diffuse, specular, emmisive
It typically goes from lightest to darkest in color from what I have seen. Unless you are going for certain color effects, its best just to go from light to dark; in whatever shade you want, but usually subtle is best here. Emisive is almost always black unless you want light coming from it.
Shininess, everything/most in MW seemed to have it at 10 by default, so it can be varied if you wish or left alone, but just keep in mind what shouldnt be shiny at all versus where its fine.

Now, looking at the stem of that mesh, its more complicated than it needs to be. Ask yourself if there are any portions that would be fine as completely straight. If you can get away with having them straight, you dont need extra polys here, get rid of them.
Taking note of the bottom of the stem, does it really need to be closed off? If its going to be seen, yes, if its meant to be in the ground or something, there isnt a reason to and it can be left open. The same for any mesh. If a portion of it will always be hidden, there is no reason it needs to be filled with polys.
One thing to always keep in mind, after a certain point, adding more geometry isnt going to be noticed by anyone. Look at it at a distance most people would see it(or a little close than that) and then think about if it looks smooth or not. If it does, and it still looks smooth when going closer, its probably more than needed.
Also, if something looks rather angular from average viewing distance, its probably not smooth enough. The exception to this is when it already contains alot of polys. Obviously things depend on complexity, but if its ok looking, there isnt a need to smooth much.
Best thing, look at MW original models, of what the minimum smoothness should be and add some to that. Take a look at my Better Meshes plus Optimization mod for something thats a bit more higher end without being overkill(in most cases, I still dont like the cauldrons). Looking at examples is a good way to orient yourself.

Hmm, didnt really see any noticable UVing errors(in what I looked at), so you are probably fine there.

A note on details, lets the textures do alot of the work. If a detail is rather small, is best to let the texture show it and not the geometry.
Taking the fancy_sconce as an example. You have the part that connects to the wall detailed using polys when it would be better if a texture simply showed the rippling in the surface.

A note on the abacus. Those counters are 8 sides. Yet the tops and bottoms of them each have 16 polys. There is no need for a hole in the center of he counters because it will never be seen. Closing the center hole in those counters will save you 16 polys each; entire savings could easily be an NPC worth of polys, or at least a couple weapons.

For textures overall, go with more natural looking ones, not clean modern looking synthetic stuff.
spikes.dds and temple_grate.dds are examples. They are far too clean looking and synthetic, not natural looking. The best thing I can think of is to look at connary's textures for a good idea since everyone is familiar with those.

Ok, so basically, optimize that one mesh I mentioned at the top by working on the stem. Do the flower textures for it using a plane instead of a mesh shaped flower; so the texture does the work, not the mesh, although it can still be curved. And finally, do those textures like I mentioned so they have more of a soft edge.
I think thats all from me for now.
Wolli, do you have anything to add?


Finally, this is more optional, but if you are going to make anything with an animation do this:
Make blk_wht_spike_trap animation smoother and not jerky. Stuff should move smoothly, even when moving at a quick pace.
And also, once again, the textures for the spikes look far too clean.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Wollibeebee » 15 Jan 2013, 05:20

Tarius wrote:Ok, lets see here.


Ok, so basically, optimize that one mesh I mentioned at the top by working on the stem. Do the flower textures for it using a plane instead of a mesh shaped flower; so the texture does the work, not the mesh, although it can still be curved. And finally, do those textures like I mentioned so they have more of a soft edge.
I think thats all from me for now.
Wolli, do you have anything to add?


Finally, this is more optional, but if you are going to make anything with an animation do this:
Make blk_wht_spike_trap animation smoother and not jerky. Stuff should move smoothly, even when moving at a quick pace.
And also, once again, the textures for the spikes look far too clean.


Nup, that's all I can think of, If she does as you say correctly, I see no reason not to promote her.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 15 Jan 2013, 06:53

Alright, I'll give it a shot. I'll post what results I come up with here in this thread.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Wollibeebee » 15 Jan 2013, 07:08

silver_fox_rival wrote:Alright, I'll give it a shot. I'll post what results I come up with here in this thread.

Cool cool, good luck!

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Tarius » 15 Jan 2013, 08:08

Wollibeebee wrote:Nup, that's all I can think of, If she does as you say correctly, I see no reason not to promote her.

Thats a she? Oh.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
The Khan: If it was real life, we would know about it. And I dont think he means this Galaxy.
Tarius: Yes, I really lead a secret double life where I am a galactic overlord.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 17 Jan 2013, 00:23

Tarius wrote:
Wollibeebee wrote:Nup, that's all I can think of, If she does as you say correctly, I see no reason not to promote her.

Thats a she? Oh.


Indeed I am. :lol:

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby silver_fox_rival » 18 Jan 2013, 06:31

Sorry for the delay boys. I am trying to finish up my armor projects I have going on before I start on the rest of my showcase.

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Re: silver_fox_rival's Clothing/Armor Showcase

Postby Wollibeebee » 18 Jan 2013, 06:42

silver_fox_rival wrote:Sorry for the delay boys. I am trying to finish up my armor projects I have going on before I start on the rest of my showcase.

That's fine, take your time, don't make it a job. :)

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