Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Laying out the guidelines for the characters of P:C, their schedules, and their homes.
User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 05 Jun 2011, 19:45

Frolix and Pella Vero are an Imperial couple who run a small school for the children of Stirk. Shortly before Cocious Hassell was appointed as mayor, the Imperial authorities decided the town was now large enough to need a school of its own (before that, the townsfolk's children were either home-tutored or had to travel to Anvil to attend school). Since there were no qualified teachers in Stirk, Frolix and Pella volunteered for the job and were shipped out from the Imperial City.

The couple live and work in the town's small schoolhouse. Pella teaches reading and arithmetic, while Frolix teaches geography and history. Children attend the school between the ages of 7 and 14; anyone who wants to learn magic, or go on to further education, still has to travel to Anvil.

Since they're employed and housed by the government, Pella and Frolix are among the few people in town who can speak freely about what's going on in Stirk. They're a reasonably happy couple but they have some disagreements: Frolix is largely supportive of Victus Pilious and his 'vision' for the town, Pella not so much. Pella mostly likes living in Stirk (apart from Pilious), whereas Frolix misses the comforts of the Imperial City.

I have an idea for a small quest where Frolix asks you to collect objects from the Ayleid ruin for a history lesson, but that can probably wait until we have a more detailed design for the ruin.

User avatar
Osidian
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 08 Dec 2010, 14:07
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Osidian » 05 Jun 2011, 22:35

While I like the idea of schools for children, there's the issue of their (the children) non-existence ingame. If we have schools, then we will need children in Cyrodiil, right? I guess it shouldn't be to hard to have, using the Children of Morrowind mod as resource (if we're allowed to).

Also, would the Empire provide education for every child in Cyrodiil? Even for the son of the poorest fisherman? I'm not totally against it, just asking for opinions. Maybe we should have a thread to discuss the school system of Cyrodiil.
I am no salmon – Dagon

User avatar
Wollibeebee
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: 18 Aug 2011, 23:10

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Wollibeebee » 06 Jun 2011, 00:00

NOOOOO to children, please! it's so lame.
But an addon .esp would be cool :?

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby SamirA » 06 Jun 2011, 00:50

Teachers and a school i like, but no children I think. Now this school could be something like a technical school for those on stirk. Something that helps them be better...peasants haha. Like a fishing workshop or something I dunno. I like the addition of some sort of education in Cyrodiil, but children don't exist in Morrowind until they are adult size apparently and I don't see the need to add them.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
Wollibeebee
P:C Reviewer
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: 18 Aug 2011, 23:10

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Wollibeebee » 06 Jun 2011, 08:54

the fishing academy!

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 12:47

No need to actually show the children - we know they must be there, even if they don't appear in the game. As for whether the Empire provides education, given the apparently near-universal literacy rates across Tamriel, it seems they must do. We know that the Temple provides education in Morrowind; since the Imperial Cult has far less power and influence, it's more likely that education in Cyrodiil is funded by the government.

User avatar
Scamp
Head of Reviewing
 
Posts: 1192
Joined: 17 Feb 2011, 19:38
Location: The Gold Coast

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Scamp » 06 Jun 2011, 13:35

I believe the mod that adds children to Morrowind is one of the mods that do a really good job at destroying the atmosphere the game has.

No children here please, I agree with Helena.
Image

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby DJGamer » 06 Jun 2011, 14:51

Scamp wrote:I believe the mod that adds children to Morrowind is one of the mods that do a really good job at destroying the atmosphere the game has.

No children here please, I agree with Helena.


I do sort of agree. On one hand, adding children adds to the atmosphere, on the other hand adding children the way they're added with CoM doesn't work too well.

Actually, it'd be interesting if someone could make an add-on to CoM that adds some extra touches of realism, obviously not making them killable, just things like giving them schedules and having them be less active outside as the main quest progresses (adding to the sense that Vvardenfell is becoming a more and more dangerous place)-then of course when the player beats the main quest they'd all be outside again.

I think that if we included children in Cyrodiil at all, it'd be best to do it as much as possible on our terms-no dependencies and the only condition being that they'd still be technically unkillable (though the AI script should just set them up to run away and hide).

The best solution would probably still be to not have them at all of course. I'd just say that having a school where children should logically be seems to draw too much attention to their "invisible nature". lol
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Osidian
P:C Modder
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 08 Dec 2010, 14:07
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Osidian » 06 Jun 2011, 15:08

DJGamer wrote: I'd just say that having a school where children should logically be seems to draw too much attention to their "invisible nature". lol


I agree and that was my point ;) Maybe it seemed like I wanted to add children, but I'm actually against adding them too.
I am no salmon – Dagon

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 18:23

DJGamer wrote:I'd just say that having a school where children should logically be seems to draw too much attention to their "invisible nature". lol

I don't agree at all. There are all sorts of things that logically must exist somewhere in the world, from bakeries to printing presses, which aren't shown in the vanilla game. If Mournhold can have a 'clockwork city' when there isn't a shred of evidence that clocks even exist in Tamriel, I see no problem with adding a schoolroom despite the lack of visible children - at least we can be certain those do exist. There are child skeletons and clothing in Oblivion despite the lack of children, and some of the other games include living children (Daggerfall did and I believe Skyrim will as well). Not to mention that there are numerous references to children in dialogue, in-game books etc., so it's not like we'd be introducing the idea out of nowhere.

That said, I agree that we shouldn't have actual children for the moment - that isn't what I was proposing. Perhaps we could make some kind of CoM add-on for Cyrodiil once the province is complete, but that's a LONG way away. I don't think that should stop us from adding schools in the meantime.

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby DJGamer » 06 Jun 2011, 18:44

The Clockwork City analogy kinda feels flawed to me. Maybe I'm just nitpicking, though.

I've never given much though to the fact that there's a place called the "Clockwork City" when there are no actual clocks in the game world. Obviously, there could be clocks but we don't see any because Bethesda didn't want to invest the time into creating and scripting them-and in that respect, the analogy does kinda work because it's obviously a design decision.

The difference is what I just said at the beginning of that first paragraph-I just never thought about the absence of clocks. I don't look at the world of Morrowind and think "This world obviously couldn't exist as it does without clocks". The Clockwork City may be the only thing in the entirety of Morrowind and it's expansions that suggests the existence of clocks.

Children on the other hand are something that kinda HAS to exist, there's nothing in lore suggesting that people are just born adults and in fact like you said there have been children in previous Elder Scrolls games, there are references to children in the lore and from the sound of things there will be child NPCs in Skyrim.

In a nutshell, I'm saying that the existence of a "Clockwork City" doesn't draw nearly as much attention to the absence of clocks in Morrowind as the existence of a children's school would draw attention to the absence of children.
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby SamirA » 06 Jun 2011, 19:00

Again I will go back and say that a school and teachers is fine but it would be better if geared towards either juveniles or adults since we can have NPC's of that nature. Otherwise a school is an empty building with no purpose other than the assumption that the invisible children are in their learning at some point.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby DJGamer » 06 Jun 2011, 19:02

Another counter-analogy:

Having a children's school without children is like us having a clock store with no clocks in it. :p
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 19:30

DJGamer wrote:Another counter-analogy:

Having a children's school without children is like us having a clock store with no clocks in it. :p

It's not, because it's not like the children would be there all the time in any case. Why not just assume that they're in there learning at some point? Virtually none of the NPCs in Morrowind are ever shown actually doing their jobs or making use of the facilities they inhabit. You might as well say we shouldn't have temples because no one ever prays there, or we shouldn't have healers and infirmaries because there are never any patients.

I really do feel quite strongly about this, not least because I've already created these characters and written a fair amount of dialogue for them. I guess maybe I should have waited, but it honestly didn't occur to me that anyone would object, and I still don't see why those objections shouldn't apply equally to lots of the existing buildings in Morrowind.

User avatar
SamirA
P:C Coordinator
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:35
Location: Some interior in Tamriel

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby SamirA » 06 Jun 2011, 20:00

You miss the fact that temples and healers provide a game function in addition to being a flavor point. A school does no such thing. I don't see why you can't just gear the school to young adults... Then we have NPC's that can be there for various reasons.
Project Coordinator

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 20:18

The reason I'd rather not gear it to young adults is that this would make it a further/higher education institute, and I don't think Stirk would realistically be able to support one. It's not big enough, and most of the population are poor fishermen, who would hardly be likely to go to college. It would make more sense to have that kind of school in the big cities such as Anvil.

As for providing a game function: firstly, it will, as I'm planning a quest associated with it. But in any case, I don't see why we shouldn't have one or two buildings that are simply there to add local colour. There are already some places like that in the vanilla game, such as the brothel in Suran (okay, it's a tavern, but the dancers/prostitutes don't serve any gameplay purpose) and the Imperial Cult school in the Ald'ruhn Mages' Guild.

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby DJGamer » 06 Jun 2011, 20:23

Helena wrote:The reason I'd rather not gear it to young adults is that this would make it a further/higher education institute, and I don't think Stirk would realistically be able to support one. It's not big enough, and most of the population are poor fishermen, who would hardly be likely to go to college. It would make more sense to have that kind of school in the big cities such as Anvil.

As for providing a game function: firstly, it will, as I'm planning a quest associated with it. But in any case, I don't see why we shouldn't have one or two buildings that are simply there to add local colour. There are already some places like that in the vanilla game, such as the brothel in Suran (okay, it's a tavern, but the dancers/prostitutes don't serve any gameplay purpose) and the Imperial Cult school in the Ald'ruhn Mages' Guild.


If it doesn't make sense to have it in Stirk, we can actually move it to Anvil and have the quest and everything take place there. Part of being in a team project is compromising and being flexible with your ideas.
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 20:40

DJGamer wrote:If it doesn't make sense to have it in Stirk, we can actually move it to Anvil and have the quest and everything take place there.

We could have both: a school for children in Stirk, and a college for adults/young adults in Anvil (which would offer other quests). If 'useless' buildings are an issue, maybe I could have the characters provide some kind of training? They are teachers, after all...

Part of being in a team project is compromising and being flexible with your ideas.

I don't think this is entirely fair. There are plenty of other areas where I've disagreed with you guys but have backed down (e.g. on the timeline for Kvatch). Is having a small school in Stirk, which doesn't break lore or interfere with anyone else's quests, really such a big issue?

User avatar
DJGamer
Mad God
 
Posts: 881
Joined: 02 Dec 2010, 01:55
Location: The Shivering Isles

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby DJGamer » 06 Jun 2011, 21:08

Helena wrote:
DJGamer wrote:If it doesn't make sense to have it in Stirk, we can actually move it to Anvil and have the quest and everything take place there.

We could have both: a school for children in Stirk, and a college for adults/young adults in Anvil (which would offer other quests). If 'useless' buildings are an issue, maybe I could have the characters provide some kind of training? They are teachers, after all...

Part of being in a team project is compromising and being flexible with your ideas.

I don't think this is entirely fair. There are plenty of other areas where I've disagreed with you guys but have backed down (e.g. on the timeline for Kvatch). Is having a small school in Stirk, which doesn't break lore or interfere with anyone else's quests, really such a big issue?


It's not so much about lore as tone and suspension of disbelief. I can suspend my disbelief that there are no children in Morrowind or Oblivion to some extent because there's no places where you'd necessarily expect children to be-yeah I know children could be anywhere but there's no one place that you'd look at and ask yourself "Why don't I ever see any children in here? No matter what time I visit there aren't any children at all!"

A school specifically intended for children is a place where you'd certainly expect to see them. You go there as a player from any time from 8am-3pm when school would usually be in session in the real world and it's empty except for the teachers. Even if school operating hours are a bit different in Tamriel you could just stand in the building all day long and not see one child. The only compromise I could think of is that we have children, but only ever in and around the school.

Edit: I just keep on expanding my analogies here.

It's like, when I'm in Morrowind I can sort of just assume that wherever I am children are always hanging out somewhere else. Maybe all children hate me, maybe I scare them or something-they just flee before I can even spot them. Seems a bit far-fetched but it's not like there's anything keeping them in one place anyway. A school on the other hand is a place where they're required to stay for a period of time to learn stuff. And nobody's telling me they're running away from me, that they're all skipping school because I'm there and the Nerevarine some mystical child-repelling magic.

Sure, we could go with that story but it'd come off as extremely silly. That's why I like it, though. :sheo:
Image

I used to walk when I could ride, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Madness? THIS IS THE SHIVERING ISLES!!!...Of course it's madness!!

DJGamer's Mod Projects

User avatar
Helena
Head of Quests
 
Posts: 487
Joined: 01 May 2011, 21:12
Location: UK

Re: Frolix and Pella - Teachers

Postby Helena » 06 Jun 2011, 21:49

Hmm... you see, I'm the opposite. I find the total absence of schools more distracting and disbelief-stretching than the presence of schools without any children. If the buildings are there, I can simply imagine that the children are present - just as I can imagine that NPCs in general are going about their business rather than standing around all day and night. ;) But we're getting into matters of personal opinion here, so there's not much point in arguing about it.

If we're not going to have a school for kids in Stirk, I'd rather just ditch the idea or else transfer it to Anvil. That would be easier than coming up with a plausible reason to have a college in Stirk. I guess I could keep the characters and turn them into Ayleid researchers or something.

Next

Return to Character Development



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron