State of the Mage's Guild

Quests for the Mage's Guild.
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Tes96
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Tes96 » 07 Feb 2014, 04:46

SamirA wrote:Necromancers can be more common, but that isn't to say they aren't hunted. In fact our Anvil Mages guild quests can all be about hunting down Necromancers since Traven is the leader. Necromancers are seen as bad even if it is technically legal. A joinable faction is still cool for those evil characters.

That sounds exciting since my character practices all schools of magic, including necromancy. She's not evil by any means. So this would be kinda like leading a double life, so to speak.

Also, shouldn't it take years to become the arch mage? I hate the short progression in Vvardenfell where I give Ajira some mushrooms and flowers and steal a soul gem from Galadriel's desk and I'm already at the 3rd rank. I prefer TESII Daggerfall's style where it took me at least about 10 quests in between ranks. Although that would be about 100 quests which would be a plethora of work. But one should have to work hard for years before becoming the overall supreme leader of magic in Tamriel.

When Traven becomes Archmage in 3E 431, what if you have actually been playing more than four years of game time? I mean seriously, by the time we get P:C complete, TR will be done, SHOTN will be close to done, or probably done, and other projects will have started. There will literally be years' worth of exploration to do, especially if one travels by walking and not running, like me.

This situation probably only poses a problem for me since I intend to play the game for that long. And since my character practices necromancy openly, Traven would be appalled by this and probably convince the council of mages to call for a vote of no-confidence in Chancellor Finis Valorum's position-- I mean, my character's position. And thus, I would be forced to step down and Traven would be the new arch mage. This last paragraph was just for my character personally.
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

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Scamp
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Scamp » 07 Feb 2014, 15:00

Tes96 wrote:Also, shouldn't it take years to become the arch mage? I hate the short progression in Vvardenfell where I give Ajira some mushrooms and flowers and steal a soul gem from Galadriel's desk and I'm already at the 3rd rank. I prefer TESII Daggerfall's style where it took me at least about 10 quests in between ranks. Although that would be about 100 quests which would be a plethora of work. But one should have to work hard for years before becoming the overall supreme leader of magic in Tamriel.


Well. Our gameworld is much larger than the vanilla one so I guess it'll take a little bit longer. Shouldn't take years though, we definitely want the player to be Arch Mage if he so desires.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 07 Feb 2014, 17:04

It's not realistic that the player should be become head of any faction, but that's what happens in TES games. And in P:C they'll already get an opportunity to 'change the future' by killing random NPCs that turn up in Oblivion.
SamirA wrote:
Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.
Haha, bethstapo.

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Alebre » 08 Feb 2014, 00:20

I thought the assumption was that even though time passes, you and all the other characters are sort of "stuck" in 427 in terms of the world. It would be possible to delay the Nerevarine plot until after 433 in Vanilla Morrowind, and likewise with the main quest in Oblivion wouldn't it? That wouldn't make much sense either.

A minimum requirement for entering the university is a must, in my opinion. I don't see anyone in the Mages Guild letting people into the university just by showing up to a Guild Hall and saying "yep, I wanna join" - far too snobbish for that. Universities in reality are quite difficult to get into, anyway. I think it should be made clear to the player exactly what they have to do to get in, though, since would probably entice the player to do more quests.

In Oblivion, I can't quite remember if the other members of the Mages Guild were particularly surprised that Falcar was performing necromancy, because if he was and he suddenly "agreed to stop" when the ban came in, I don't think anyone would be surprised if he was just still doing it in secret - especially knowing his character. I was thinking that there must be a reason why he stayed in the Mages Guild following the ban (apart from to kill Associates, although I hate it when a character is just so blatantly evil), so perhaps he didn't necessarily "adore" necromancy, just thought that magic, as an elite art, should be kept open for its full potential, and only took to it partly as an act of defiance and also because Mannimarco was coming.
Although it was never made clear exactly why he and Caranya both decided to stay with the Guild and waste their time when half the rest of the Guild resigned.

Speaking of which, do we know who the Council of Mages is going to be? (I believe the Oblivion one is Traven, Raminus Polus, Irlav Jarol and Caranya with a mystery fifth one missing).
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Tes96
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Tes96 » 08 Feb 2014, 05:20

Scamp wrote:Well. Our gameworld is much larger than the vanilla one so I guess it'll take a little bit longer. Shouldn't take years though, we definitely want the player to be Arch Mage if he so desires.
Yeah, that makes sense. The wonderful thing about Morrowind is that I can always mod PC after its completed official release to make the quest lines 100 vigintillion times longer, if I so desire. :)


TerrifyingDaedricFoe wrote:It's not realistic that the player should be become head of any faction, but that's what happens in TES games. And in P:C they'll already get an opportunity to 'change the future' by killing random NPCs that turn up in Oblivion.
And why do you say that it isn't realistic for Player to become head of any faction? Aren't you playing the role of a potential super hero? And why wouldn't a super hero be able to become arch mage eventually, given that s/he was super gifted in the arcane arts, or whatever faction it was?

Yes, the ability to kill anyone, including the Emperor, will definitely have a change in the story. But with that, the person would have their own story to tell and perhaps a different way that allowed the Oblivion Gates to open, if at all. After all, there are an infinite number of possibilities that can occur in the fabric of existence and intra-dimensional transcendence. :ugeek:









Alebre wrote:I thought the assumption was that even though time passes, you and all the other characters are sort of "stuck" in 427 in terms of the world. It would be possible to delay the Nerevarine plot until after 433 in Vanilla Morrowind, and likewise with the main quest in Oblivion wouldn't it? That wouldn't make much sense either.
You're right. The years go on but the game world doesn't change. I've set my timescale to 1000000000 and played for a couple hours. I've technically been in Morrowind well into the second century of the 4th era and nothing changed. The game Rest function doesn't tell you what year you're in. I'd love to have a mod for OpenMW that changes the years from 3E 433 to 4E 1 when and if that time comes during your playing.
That's opening up a whole new field right there. Perhaps after our official release of all of Cyrodiil, we can release a mod addon that allows you to actually play the Oblivion crisis storyline and have oblivion gates pop up all over Cyrodiil. (Lorewise, they appear all over Tamriel but all the other provinces won't be completed for decades.)

Alebre wrote:A minimum requirement for entering the university is a must, in my opinion. I don't see anyone in the Mages Guild letting people into the university just by showing up to a Guild Hall and saying "yep, I wanna join" - far too snobbish for that. Universities in reality are quite difficult to get into, anyway. I think it should be made clear to the player exactly what they have to do to get in, though, since would probably entice the player to do more quests.
I agree. Remember when you first arrive at the College of Winterhold and Tolfdir has you cast a ward spell and he hits you with magic spells to test your ability to do this spell? Something along the lines of that but much more drawn out, longer and more difficult is what I would be thinking of. In my opinion, it gets very redundant and old having to do the same "go here, kill this 100% evil necromancer (because there's no way a necromancer could be a good person (sarcasm)) and report back" type of quests.
For requirements to get into the Arcane University, I would love for the Player to be assigned to write an essay or paper on the properties of magic and how magic works, what they intend to do with their powers and skills and why. Kinda like when you go for a job interview, they want to know why you want to work there. I think the Arcane University would be no different, selectively weeding out wannabees and those who lack the skill and potential and seriousness. Although the Player isn't able to type in Morrowind so it would have to be a blank parchment saying something like (Your essay is written below) or something like that. Oh, and of course guild dues. You'd have to pay a bunch of money to get in, and also pay monthly fees. Which reminds me, will we have a recurring monthly due? And if you're gone for months, it will just accumulate? I would love to have that. Besides, most Players wind up having more gold than they know what to do with.

Plus, all magic isn't related to battle. Yes, the TES series is 80% combat and 15% politics and religion, relatively. But that doesn't mean that we can't have mage quests that demonstrate other uses with magic. Like one test could be to have the Player demonstrate their precision and expertise with fire magic by trying to light a single candle in the center of a bunch of other candles without lighting any of the other ones. Not sure how we would implement this in-game. Who knows, maybe we'll eventually incorporate OpenMW when it's officially released, which would allow for much further quest possibilities.

Speaking of which, do we know who the Council of Mages is going to be? (I believe the Oblivion one is Traven, Raminus Polus, Irlav Jarol and Caranya with a mystery fifth one missing).[/quote]How does one get on the Council of Mages? And what are they exactly? Are they advisers to the Arch mage? Hmm, perhaps the Player can be the fifth one? Or would that not work with lore?
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Alebre » 08 Feb 2014, 06:24

Half of the Mages Guild resigned when necromancy was abolised, including members of the Council of Mages. This implies that supporters of necromancy were on the Council of Mages, although it's not specified who was on before and who got promoted. The mystery fifth member could be simply because the Mages Guild is still trying to repair itself after the mass-resignation, or it could be someone in the game and the fact that they're on the Council is simply not made clear (Tar-Meena, for instance).

Oh, and yes, I reckon that people who join the Mages Guild will expect/hope magic will be key to at least most of the quests (Bethesda seemed to've forgotten that in Oblivion). The problem with your idea, tes, is that I happen to know a lot of people play games to escape from writing essays, so I don't know how quests involving essays will go down on the whole. Same with paying guild dues, although does make the game more realistic.

In my mind, making magic key to the Mages Guild will mean that they will have to be more mental rather than hack-and-slack physical play. Likewise with tes, I can't quite picture how that will all fan out though.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » 08 Feb 2014, 09:57

Actually the rumours about MG resignations from Oblivion are:
Half of the Council of Mages resigned when Traven took over the position of Arch-Mage.

The Mages Guild runs more or less like it always did, but we lost quite a few members when the practice of Necromancy was banned.

I think I wrote some notes about the Council of Mages somewhere (it might be on a piece of dead tree somewhere in my house, rather than on the forums). I'll try to dig it out.


Tes96 wrote:
TerrifyingDaedricFoe wrote:It's not realistic that the player should be become head of any faction, but that's what happens in TES games. And in P:C they'll already get an opportunity to 'change the future' by killing random NPCs that turn up in Oblivion.
And why do you say that it isn't realistic for Player to become head of any faction? Aren't you playing the role of a potential super hero? And why wouldn't a super hero be able to become arch mage eventually, given that s/he was super gifted in the arcane arts, or whatever faction it was?
I mean that during the time you would spend in the gameworld (usually several months max, unless you're doing some EXTREME ROLEPLAYING) it would be unrealistic to rise from newbie to chief, even if you're super-duper awesome and can take down every other member of the guild simultaneously. People just wouldn't want someone in charge who's only been there a few months.



I don't think writing an essay could be implemented well in Morrowind. If it were a requirement it would involve substantial scripted input from an NPC, or using a piece of unpublished research from some dead NPC. Although now I'm half-tempted to do that and have the PC's progress up the ranks brought to an abrupt halt by shouts of plagiarism...
SamirA wrote:
Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.
Haha, bethstapo.

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Tarius » 09 Feb 2014, 00:30

The puzzle aspect is a good one though. At some point I think we need a 'magic maze' type minigame where you use spells to progress.
Tarius: I have now conquered the galaxy twice and am working on a third. Once thats out of me, I will be back to work.
TDF: Which game is that(I assume its a game and not real life)
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