State of the Mage's Guild

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DJGamer
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State of the Mage's Guild

Postby DJGamer » 15 Apr 2011, 20:50

I get the impression from some of the dialogue in Oblivion that Hannibal Traven only recently was promoted to his post as Arch Mage. There's a lot of talk about his ban on Necromancy as well as some mention of stricter requirements for entering the Arcane University. On his UESP Page they mention that prior his promotion he was the head of the Anvil Mages Guild.

I mentioned in the shout box the possibility of doing away with the "recommendation quests" due to the fact that it might limit the number of quests we can provide from each Mage's Guild Hall. SamirA argued that the limitation may be a good thing, and I've had the thought that instead of having a greater number of quests we could make recommendation quests more elaborate or perhaps have some Mage's Guild heads require the completion of a number of small quests while others have one or two longer quests.

However when I recently played Oblivion I heard something about the Arch Mage having changed the requirements for getting into the University so there IS a basis in lore for changing this aspect of the Mage's Guild. We could still potentially have a limited number of quests that each guild location provides and possibly still have a minimum rank to reach before you can enter the university (perhaps the second or third rank up).

It would also be interesting to see how the Mage's Guild and Cyrodiil as a whole was before the Necromancy ban. We could possibly even have a joinable Necromancer faction.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Scamp » 16 Apr 2011, 13:38

joinable Necromancer faction.


Yes, please! I never liked the "recommendation quests", so I agree there shouldn't be any.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Osidian » 19 Apr 2011, 15:25

According to the Imperial Library, The Arch-Mage Hannibal Traven started to lead the guild in 3E 431, so around 3E427, when Morrowind's storyline begins, he should still be the head of the Anvil Mages Guild.

About the banning of Necromancy, Traven was responsible for it (with the support of the majority of the elders and high-ranking leaders) but it was supposedly already frowned upon before the official ban, wasn't it? In Vvardenfall there is at least one quest where the Argonian guy from Wolverine Hall asks you to kill a necromancer and there is also that Orsimer in Balmora's Mages Guild who hides the fact that she practices Necromancy. But this could be because the Dunmer (except maybe the Telvanni) are probably the ones who dislike Necromancy the most, considering it an abomination except for their traditional ancestor worship rituals, and may not represent what happens in Cyrodiil.

So would Necromancy in Cyrodiil be also disapproved, although legal, before the ban? I don't think necromancers would be showing what they do out in the open.

A joinable necromancer faction would be nice, especially if it was one who didn't portrait necromancers a inherently evil.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 19 Apr 2011, 18:21

I think the PC may potentialy become the arch-mage since Traven isn't the arch-mage yet. Also as I see it the Mage Guild dosen't teach necromacy or allow necromancers as it's members. But otherwise necromancers aren't hunted in Cyrodiil so they should be more common than in MW (where the Temple and by extension it's Ordinators hunt them).

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby SamirA » 19 Apr 2011, 19:15

Necromancers can be more common, but that isn't to say they aren't hunted. In fact our Anvil Mages guild quests can all be about hunting down Necromancers since Traven is the leader. Necromancers are seen as bad even if it is technically legal. A joinable faction is still cool for those evil characters.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 19 Apr 2011, 19:55

Traven was able to push hunting necromancers because he was the head of the mage guild and as such he had a huge influence on the Imperial Court. Now Traven the leader of the Anvil Mage guild won't have that much power so he won't openly hunt necromancers. He may give necromancer hunting quests to high ranking members of the Mage Guild though.

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby SamirA » 19 Apr 2011, 21:21

Traven would have plenty of influence right now if he is in position to take over the guild in a few short years. Necromancy has been frowned upon since the creation of the mages guild and the Order of the Lamp itself has its birth dealing with them. It is not a stretch to see Traven hunting down necromancers, in fact it could be the very platform that sees him ascend to the head of the mages guild.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 19 Apr 2011, 21:27

He would hunt them. But in a discreet fashion. He would of course be full of anti-necro propaganda

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Osidian » 19 Apr 2011, 23:40

alex25 wrote:He would hunt them. But in a discreet fashion. He would of course be full of anti-necro propaganda

I agree.

It seems the Gold Coast should be hell for a necromancer. It's funny though, since there's a lich right inside Anvil walls.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby SamirA » 19 Apr 2011, 23:51

That actually makes for an interesting dynamic Osidian, it would be interesting to allude to the events in Oblivion with the Lich while not actually doing something to remove it since that would mean it couldn't be done in Oblivion.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby DJGamer » 20 Apr 2011, 06:04

Carahil wrote:Arch-Mage Traven has closed the doors of the University to all who are not qualified to enter. A wise decision, in my opinion. It's in the Imperial City; perhaps some day you may be able to visit him there. He's done wonderful things for this guild.


That's the quote I was thinking of in regards to why we may not have recommendation quests in P:C.

I also wonder if there's any indication as to when exactly the events preceding "Where Spirits Have Lease" happened and/or if it would be reasonable to have them unfold within Province: Cyrodiil.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby Osidian » 20 Apr 2011, 12:18

The lich was defeated by Carahil about 100 years prior to the events of Oblivion, 3E335 to be precise. So it should be in the manor now. But we should probably just make it inaccessible.

This book has some information: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-scrap-lorgrens-diary

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby SamirA » 20 Apr 2011, 15:50

Yeah, we may be able to work something out where the PC can enter this haunted manor and fight baddies and things but the items from Oblivion won't be able to be picked up and the basement will be inaccessible. We could even make it so the player is determining whether to close off the manor or not for some official so it makes sense for it to be boarded up in Oblivion.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 20 Apr 2011, 16:22

Someone may try to trick the player into buying the house. The player is attacked, survives and than takes his money back with the help of the Mage guild.

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby DJGamer » 20 Apr 2011, 18:30

alex25 wrote:Someone may try to trick the player into buying the house. The player is attacked, survives and than takes his money back with the help of the Mage guild.


Having someone trick the player into buying the house would be far too similar to the quest already in Oblivion.

My only thought on this now is "How reasonable would it be to somehow integrate time travel?". :lol:

It's just that reading the back story on the lich I think it would be kinda bad as to be part of the group that Carahil leads into the manner-although even WITH time travel I'm not sure that would make sense because you'd then need to travel back in time and temporarily re-join the Mage's Guild in the past plus time travel in itself is a very tricky proposition-ESPECIALLY in an open world setting.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 20 Apr 2011, 18:34

Time travel seems tricky. We also are (if I remember correctly) in a not-Dragon Break period so the time is linear and no mortal magics can penetrate time (at least in TES).

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby SamirA » 20 Apr 2011, 18:40

No time travel. The manor can be closed by some town official and he wants to know if it is with good cause so he sends you to check it out upon which you discover it is indeed haunted and ghosts will continue to haunt it as far as you know so you tell him and he boards it up so that in Oblivion you find a boarded up house.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 20 Apr 2011, 18:58

Actually the scam idea was meant as a inuendo to the events of Oblivion. I think that dropping hints and making references where needed would enhance the game. Being scamed would be too obvious though. Also the Golden Coast won't be that much of a necro hell since I doubt that Traven would have had the political power to pass anti-necromacy laws. So he wouldn't be able to hunt them so openly. Perhaps we may even have a infestation of necromancers in the Gold Coast. Traven and the player solve the problem and thus they gain influence and promotion to the seat of Arch-Mage. It would be a good idea to hint that Traven would be the players natural successor.

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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby DJGamer » 25 Apr 2011, 19:24

When we get around to Cheydinhal, we'll need to figure out what we'll be doing with Falcar. I'm kind of assuming he never practiced Necromancy openly, or at least not in such a way that would've gotten him booted out of the Mage's Guild as soon as the ban was put in place.
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Re: State of the Mage's Guild

Postby alex25 » 26 Apr 2011, 15:16

Actually Falcar should be quite free in practicing necromacy. Not overly public of course and not parading what he's doing but more like a art reserved for those deserving it (like higher ranking members of the mage-guild or guys who did a quest for him). The other members didn't denounce him because he appeared to stop practicing necromacy after the ban was enforced and/or bullied them into silence.

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